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Thread: Romneys

  1. #241
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tip View Post
    Dont belive a thing EBELEX qoutes they only deal with southern lowland farms who dont know how to keep sheep and wouldent know what a hill sheep was, personaly i think theyn need an almighty big kick up the ARSE. Hence my disagrement with the amount of labour you are spending on your intensive recording syatem, our job wouldent stand it.
    Why do you disagree on the amount of labour needed for intensive recording? Hourly wage compared to the price of sheep in NZ is considerably higher than in the UK, we simply cannot afford the extra labour that the UK can, so our recording has to be simple and time effective.

  2. #242
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Why do you disagree on the amount of labour needed for intensive recording? Hourly wage compared to the price of sheep in NZ is considerably higher than in the UK, we simply cannot afford the extra labour that the UK can, so our recording has to be simple and time effective.

    How so, convince me i cant see it myself, i very rarely see a sheep lamb, tips run with all sheep, wont touch a lamb till its two months old and then wouldent have a clue who its parents were, if everyting goes well only touch the ewes 5 times a year, and the lambs less. If you listen to our Ovine expert sounds like he lives with his sheep i just couldent afford to do that.

    OT

  3. #243
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tip View Post
    How so, convince me i cant see it myself, i very rarely see a sheep lamb, tips run with all sheep, wont touch a lamb till its two months old and then wouldent have a clue who its parents were, if everyting goes well only touch the ewes 5 times a year, and the lambs less. If you listen to our Ovine expert sounds like he lives with his sheep i just couldent afford to do that.

    OT
    Aha but you're not running a pedigreed recorded flock. If I wasn't recording my ewes I'd only handle my meatmasters 3 times a year. (Ram in, Ram out, and Weaning).
    Two quite different farming systems.

  4. #244
    Global Ovine
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    OT you are a rarity in your part of the world.

    If I wasn't recording to make each generation better than their mothers for both productive traits and functionality, my ram clients would eventually walk away as inflation would see them going backwards. My clientelle demand data to support a good looking ram.

    I could use DNA parentage and go on holiday, but not in a very high stocking rate/ high lambing % flock. All said and done, one shepherd to tag upto 4000 lambs and attend to any problems cannot be done without sheep which do all the essentials themselves most of the time.

    To run a commercial flock is just so much simpler.

  5. #245
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Global Ovine View Post
    OT you are a rarity in your part of the world.

    If I wasn't recording to make each generation better than their mothers for both productive traits and functionality, my ram clients would eventually walk away as inflation would see them going backwards. My clientelle demand data to support a good looking ram.

    I could use DNA parentage and go on holiday, but not in a very high stocking rate/ high lambing % flock. All said and done, one shepherd to tag upto 4000 lambs and attend to any problems cannot be done without sheep which do all the essentials themselves most of the time.

    To run a commercial flock is just so much simpler.
    Oh yes!!!!!

  6. #246
    JD_Kid
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    To run a commercial flock is just so much simpler

    yep to that was tied up with a merino stud spent more time bugging around with them tagging and recording than the other main flock of merinos ..

    like GO's saying if and i don't realy know how the costs and gains would work say DNA linking ewes lambs rams EID wool, weight gains etc etc etc on the lambs even eye muscel scanning of ewe lambs etc ( just out of intrest if doing say 4000+ lambs for DNA linking and then off that foot worm etc for ewe hoggets and a EMA scan rough guess on price ?????)

    doing that how fast would a flock improve ?? over say non ID of single sheep and culling on stockman type cull trates and maybe add in say a weight cut off at weaning and at mateing for hoggets

    OT we yard our sheep shearing and crutching , pre lamb vax , tailing , pre wean were we crutch all lambs and mouth old ewes , wean ewe lambs off jet all things staying , wean draft old ewes and works/store lambs gone
    7 times a year ewes in sheep yards .. lambs untill they are 2 tooths maybe 10 12 times with drenchs vax program and weighing alot of time try and do quite a few jobs at once

  7. #247
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Global Ovine View Post
    OT you are a rarity in your part of the world.

    If I wasn't recording to make each generation better than their mothers for both productive traits and functionality, my ram clients would eventually walk away as inflation would see them going backwards. My clientelle demand data to support a good looking ram.

    I could use DNA parentage and go on holiday, but not in a very high stocking rate/ high lambing % flock. All said and done, one shepherd to tag upto 4000 lambs and attend to any problems cannot be done without sheep which do all the essentials themselves most of the time.

    To run a commercial flock is just so much simpler.
    No he isnt you would be surprised how many people farm sheep like that myself included, tis the rollsroyce way of sheep farming imo.

  8. #248
    Creedmoor1
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    A range of farm class's, I'll try and find the source of the data buts its one the bigger farm accountancy firm(its a well respected source).
    Last data I saw re NZ vs UK was average wean % NZ 124% UK 98%. Killing weights were higher in the UK but weaning weights were higher in NZ.
    Cheers Dan, would be interested to see it. You could PM me if you find it, please. Don't spend time if it's too much hassle, though.

  9. #249
    Tim W
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    I performance record 600/700 ewes on an outdoor system in the UK ---last year my total time spent with the sheep was 29hrs week. This includes all sheep work-- maintainance/recording/driving to flocks etc
    I handle the lambs at birth/8 wks & 20 weeks---each time for a matter of seconds (20 wks takes a bit more as i muscle scan & take a FEC sample)

    Ewes go through the race pre-lambing (marking up), weaning (to sepearte from lambs & pull out culls) and tupping

    It is possible to record without a high input system you just have to be organised

    I have used DNA parentage to do this job but rising costs meant i had to stop---i hope it will soon reduce again and i can re-think this route

  10. #250
    Global Ovine
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    [QUOTE=Tim W;912384]I performance record 600/700 ewes on an outdoor system in the UK ---last year my total time spent with the sheep was 29hrs week. This includes all sheep work-- maintainance/recording/driving to flocks etc]

    Sounds like you have got the system and the sheep right Tim. Obviously your sheep allow you time too by doing all those things that sheep should do naturally.....the point I have endeavoured to make, although one or contributors read something entirely different into my comments.

  11. #251
    Global Ovine
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    [QUOTE=JD_Kid;912325

    like GO's saying if and i don't realy know how the costs and gains would work say DNA linking ewes lambs rams EID wool, weight gains etc etc etc on the lambs even eye muscel scanning of ewe lambs etc ( just out of intrest if doing say 4000+ lambs for DNA linking and then off that foot worm etc for ewe hoggets and a EMA scan rough guess on price ?????)

    doing that how fast would a flock improve ?? over say non ID of single sheep and culling on stockman type cull trates and maybe add in say a weight cut off at weaning and at mateing for hoggets ]

    I tried to answer this some posts back giving the results of an audit on the gains in the NZ sheep industry by Amer and Young (NZSAP) which showed when the trend lines improved. Since the advent of BLUP analysis rate of gain across all traits improved and gained faster when the CPT facilitated SILACE for traits across all breeds. That shows that measuring and selection do work. Some semen from 1980 rams, considered among the best in their day, were used in the CPT flocks 2 years ago. They were blown away by todays rams across all traits. Without individual records, be they linked by mating records along conventional lines or by DNA, how could one identify the elite rams to make the fastest gains? To just trim off the ewes which fail to get over a threshold would achieve less than a quarter of that rate. A good breeder does both. That is why running a modern recorded flock is very costly and time consuming for the breeder and rams from those flocks are sold for much under their true value.

    For example, basic recording costs + ultra sound eye muscle/fat assessments + 10% of males CT scanned ($NZ365.00 each) + gene testing for Footrot, cold tolerance, MyoMAX (others optional) + WormFEC, time to do all this etc. Add the generational gain in average worth (in my case $NZ2.00) which is the proof of achievement from all this work which my clients get the benefit of, it becomes obvious that the breeder is under paid. Hell, I haven't yet mentioned any reproductive technologies like AI or MOET to speed up the use of the elites.

    Maybe it is no wonder that the NZ ram breeding industry is now dominated by fewer but bigger breeders relying on scientifically proven technologies, because most buyers demand rams which will be improvers. As the questions about profitability asked of NZ farmers a few decades ago get asked of farmers in the UK, I suggest the answers will be Anglicised versions but driven by the same principles. And sheep which cost less to run (even in high stocking rate/high lambing % flocks) will be significant contributors. Modern improved Romneys included.

  12. #252
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Recording at birth or soon after.

    In an outdoor situation and remembering that in Uk we have to tail and castrate within seven days. You only want to catch the lambs once . Too early and there is a danger that the wether of a twin is left behind , too late ie more than a day and it's difficult to catch em. So just how do you do it ,TimW , in a few seconds a lamb . I have tried at various times but single handed it aint easy and it's the ringing regulation that complicates the issue. Simples if in a shed but outside in the rain!

    A bag for rings and , a bag for tags, notebook ,now data logger,all that lot hanging round your neck and then catching the lambs.

    I admire all those that really do it.

    I now ring at 2/3 days by dogging 30/40 ewes and lambs into an enclosure.

  13. #253
    Tim W
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Recording birth-- out door lambing;
    Need --psion + tags (optional binoculars)
    procedure---
    pre lambing ewes are spray marked with ID
    Walk round field once a day, when ewe has lambed grab the lambs and tag + enter details on psion, i know dam id from spray mark so don't have to catch her and sire id appears automatically from tupping records on psion
    Takes seconds to tag and enter lamb id/sex etc

    Tails---don't do it , these are hair sheep so no need
    Castrate---dont do it, these could possibly be for breeding and are 95% sold fat off grass by December even if they are entire

    Complications----sometimes i miss a set of lambs/can't catch them or its so wet i don't want to handle them. In this scenario i just record on my psion (excel sheet) that a certain ewe has had 2 lambs on whatever date. Then at 8 wk weighing when i gather the sheep i spray mark all the untagged lambs (maybe 20 lambs in a flock of 300 ewes) ---i can then observe which lambs feed off which dam

    I am single handed, 600+ recorded ewes this year---out the door at 8am every morning, back by early afternoon---3 sites ---60 mile round trip

    It helps that i have sheep that are fit for purpose/don't need tailing/don't get cast cuz they don't have heavy fleeces and look after their lambs without intevention. (have aided 3 lambing this year)---my sheep perform like the romneys described in this thread but without the hassle of wool + they are nearer 62/65kg

  14. #254
    Six dogs
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    We lamb 750 romneys outdoors and have been recording for 3 years.I admit i dont have the patience for the agri dent 350(no reflection on the 350 just me!)however my wife has a window cleaners pouch-a bit like a tool belt-carries marker spray tags recorder with a good dog most will stand for youy to crook the lambs if not the lamb gets nailed gently!Should clarify our ewes have large zee tag management tags so no need to catch the ewe just no. the lamb with her ear tag simples!!
    Catching up to speed on this thread we are trying to improve twinning(note not prolificacy by more 3's)we are finding as posted earlier it does take a few years of building up a true data base picture now finding 35%of ewes in the flock consistantly scanning 175% followed by 50%of flock ewes scanning between 140 and 170 over their life time followed by15% only ever doing 130%.Interestingly the mid group has the best response to flushing the top and bottom ones stay at that level regardless.This is with ewes sourced from good marsh sheep 6 years ago just wished we started recording then as we are graziers with no S F P!!

  15. #255
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Six dogs View Post
    We lamb 750 romneys outdoors and have been recording for 3 years.I admit i dont have the patience for the agri dent 350(no reflection on the 350 just me!)however my wife has a window cleaners pouch-a bit like a tool belt-carries marker spray tags recorder with a good dog most will stand for youy to crook the lambs if not the lamb gets nailed gently!Should clarify our ewes have large zee tag management tags so no need to catch the ewe just no. the lamb with her ear tag simples!!
    Catching up to speed on this thread we are trying to improve twinning(note not prolificacy by more 3's)we are finding as posted earlier it does take a few years of building up a true data base picture now finding 35%of ewes in the flock consistantly scanning 175% followed by 50%of flock ewes scanning between 140 and 170 over their life time followed by15% only ever doing 130%.Interestingly the mid group has the best response to flushing the top and bottom ones stay at that level regardless.This is with ewes sourced from good marsh sheep 6 years ago just wished we started recording then as we are graziers with no S F P!!
    When do you ring em?

    And out of interest are you using eid or visual read tags for lambs?

  16. #256
    Six dogs
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Lambs get rung at the same time use e i d tags on all females only get visual tag when or if they enter the flock.There have been days this year when we have left lambs another day due to the weather.

  17. #257
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Six dogs View Post
    Lambs get rung at the same time use e i d tags on all females only get visual tag when or if they enter the flock.There have been days this year when we have left lambs another day due to the weather.
    So you put in a slaughter eid tag then when the female enters the flock you chop that out and put in a new set of an eid and a visual tag ? How long do you reckon it takes you to do tagging and ringing and are you on your own ?

  18. #258
    Six dogs
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    No male lambs or terminal sired lambs all have single e i d all possible replacement females have 2 tags.We then weigh every thing at weaning to record weight of lamb each ewe rears as i am anxious not to loose sight of this whilst still trying to boost lamb nos.At a rough guess tailing and recording including moves on a quad around 200 acres 20 couples an hour.

  19. #259
    welshshepherd
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Just a quick update on our Romneys. After the initial problems we had, everything has settled down now. Almost finished lambing, just a few straglers to go. Growth rates is amazing in the pure romneys. NC mule x romney have got some stretch about them. Texel x mule back to a romney - they've clicked!! All in all verry pleased with them. Will probably be purchasing a few more this year. Will keep you updated on how they kill out

  20. #260
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by welshshepherd View Post
    Just a quick update on our Romneys. After the initial problems we had, everything has settled down now. Almost finished lambing, just a few straglers to go. Growth rates is amazing in the pure romneys. NC mule x romney have got some stretch about them. Texel x mule back to a romney - they've clicked!! All in all verry pleased with them. Will probably be purchasing a few more this year. Will keep you updated on how they kill out
    Be good to know how you get on re the Romney Tip on the x ewes, its not a breed i knew much about but getting to know a lot more now. May try one on some of my Cheviot ewes but may struggle to get a buyer for the gimmers ?? There again i could keep them and sell the draft chevies instead

    OT

  21. #261
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by welshshepherd View Post
    Just a quick update on our Romneys. After the initial problems we had, everything has settled down now. Almost finished lambing, just a few straglers to go. Growth rates is amazing in the pure romneys. NC mule x romney have got some stretch about them. Texel x mule back to a romney - they've clicked!! All in all verry pleased with them. Will probably be purchasing a few more this year. Will keep you updated on how they kill out
    Good im pleased they realy are super sheep very over looked and under rated, and they cross very well with texel and cheviot.

  22. #262
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Was thinking of shocking the neighbourhood and buying a Border Leicster, but may send them all in to mild panic and buy a Romney, reading this thread has really got me intrested in the breed. They all think i am very strange because i dont have limmys, if you dont bred limmys and or mules round here your considered odd, so probably just think i have gone completly mad

    ps Memo to Frank

    Please can you get the Romney web pages updated, no point having a website if its not kept upto date IMHO, dosnt look good to perspective buyers

  23. #263
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Bump

  24. #264
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tip View Post
    Was thinking of shocking the neighbourhood and buying a Border Leicster, but may send them all in to mild panic and buy a Romney, reading this thread has really got me intrested in the breed. They all think i am very strange because i dont have limmys, if you dont bred limmys and or mules round here your considered odd, so probably just think i have gone completly mad

    ps Memo to Frank

    Please can you get the Romney web pages updated, no point having a website if its not kept upto date IMHO, dosnt look good to perspective buyers
    Dont worry i have a couple of shearlings for sale this year

  25. #265
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tip View Post
    Was thinking of shocking the neighbourhood and buying a Border Leicster, but may send them all in to mild panic and buy a Romney, reading this thread has really got me intrested in the breed. They all think i am very strange because i dont have limmys, if you dont bred limmys and or mules round here your considered odd, so probably just think i have gone completly mad

    ps Memo to Frank

    Please can you get the Romney web pages updated, no point having a website if its not kept upto date IMHO, dosnt look good to perspective buyers
    I doubt that even Frank can sort that one since he has never had anything to do with the running of the Society that runs the web site. I'll have a word but don't hold your breath. Frank will sell you some Romneys though.

  26. #266
    wooly
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Just to bring this topic back to the top, but if anyone is interested in purchasing some Romneys, the main Romney sale is at Ashford Market on Friday 5th October.

    I will post the link once the catalogue is produced.


    ( I have 200 ewe lambs available straight of the farm is anyone is interested, some with NZ blood lines.)

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