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Thread: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

  1. #1
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    Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Sorry, this isn't agricultural but I have a Lucas B90 (remember those ?) service exchange starter motor. It fits a Rover SDi 3500cc 1976-1986 and a Morgan Plus Eight 3500cc 1968-1976. I am assuming that it is negative earth. Could some kind person tell me how to check both the actual starter and the soldenoid at the same time please ?

    I have jumped a battery onto the starter and that spins O.K. but would like to see the solenoid kick the pinion out at the same time just to be sure it's all O.K. before I offer it for sale. And what's it worth ? Any ideas ? I've had it in the stores for about 20 years ! Can someone tell me where to put the power to and if I need to do anything with the terminals on the soledoid.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Starter.jpg

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Sorry, this isn't agricultural but I have a Lucas B90 (remember those ?) service exchange starter motor. It fits a Rover SDi 3500cc 1976-1986 and a Morgan Plus Eight 3500cc 1968-1976. I am assuming that it is negative earth. Could some kind person tell me how to check both the actual starter and the soldenoid at the same time please ?

    I have jumped a battery onto the starter and that spins O.K. but would like to see the solenoid kick the pinion out at the same time just to be sure it's all O.K. before I offer it for sale. And what's it worth ? Any ideas ? I've had it in the stores for about 20 years ! Can someone tell me where to put the power to and if I need to do anything with the terminals on the soledoid.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Starter.jpg


    Looks like there are two blade terminals on the solenoid? Put neg jump lead from battery neg to starter housing/earth, use a small wire to briefly power one of the blades while holding the starter- in vice is best, the correct terminal will just shove the pinion into "mesh", now put the positive jump lead onto the RH solenoid terminal- nothing will happen. Now use your small test wire and with one end on the recently fitted positive jump lead/solenoid, touch the other onto that blade terminal tested earlier, if all ok the solenoid will push the pinion into mesh and it should be revolving this time.

    (The second blade terminal may of been fitted as a way of helping start old petrol lump of that era, some used 9v coils with the cars 12v supply thru a ballast resistor to give 9v when running. When starting some may of had a wire from the extra blade terminal you have running direct to the coil so it gave 12v under starting and in theory helped make a good size spark)
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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Thank you FF. I was hoping you would come to my rescue. I'll have a go using your instructions and let you know how I get on. I have made a couple of lengths of wire with the correct size spade connectors on one end and alligator clips on the other on the suspicion that I had to wire up the soldenoid somehow but didn't want to get it awfully wrong.

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Thank you FF. I was hoping you would come to my rescue. I'll have a go using your instructions and let you know how I get on. I have made a couple of lengths of wire with the correct size spade connectors on one end and alligator clips on the other on the suspicion that I had to wire up the soldenoid somehow but didn't want to get it awfully wrong.
    I could be wrong (I haven't looked at one in about 3 decades) but I seem to remember some of the Dodge (car) starters with the separate solenoid had two spade terminals - one for "+" and one for "-".

    Again, I could be wrong and my memory could be going, but . . .

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Why not keep the starter and get a Morgan to go with it?😉

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Why not keep the starter and get a Morgan to go with it?😉
    Now thats a place worth a factory tour. Nice countryside too.
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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Why not keep the starter and get a Morgan to go with it?😉
    That would be grounds for divorce in my household.

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    UPDATE Firstly I tested the starter and everything works as it should so thanks for all the help. But it didn't quite work out as I thought it was going to. Firstly, as explained before, I had already got the starter to spin so no problem there. And with the starter body still earthed (negative) I applied a + current to one of the spades on the soldenoid. The pinion flew out. Success. But then I applied a + current to the starter motor, making the pinion spin and then re-applied a + current via a small wire to the solenoid. Pinion still spinning but it didn't move laterally.

    So then I tried it in reverse order. + to the solenoid, throw the pinion out, and then, while the current is still being given to the soldenoid I applied + positive current to the starter. Success ! The pinion stayed out while it started and continued to spin.

    Therefore, the pinion goes into the starter ring first before the it begins to revolve. Pretty b100dy obvious really isn't it !!!

    Thanks again.

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    This might be of interest-




    Some rely just on the rotating action coming from the steep spline as it turns, but some big HD starters may use solenoids with 2 stages in it internal contacts, the later full on stage kicks in when the throw lever reaches full engagement.
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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    How about one of these spring starters on a Morgan then!





    I used to look after a 3 cyl lister with one of these on a 6ft vibrating roller, they're not ideal on a poor starting engine
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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Some rely just on the rotating action coming from the steep spline as it turns, but some big HD starters may use solenoids with 2 stages in it internal contacts, the later full on stage kicks in when the throw lever reaches full engagement.
    That's why I couldn't understand why the pinion didn't come out when the starter was spinning. I thoiught that the pinion should have been thrown forwardt by centrifugal force acting on the spiral splines. I wondered if the pinion had somehow become seized by being in the stores for many years. But it appears that both BL and Morgan stipulated that the starter should have the sort of mechanism that throws the piinion out and when it's engaged with the flywheel that's when the starter spins.

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    How about one of these spring starters on a Morgan then!





    I used to look after a 3 cyl lister with one of these on a 6ft vibrating roller, they're not ideal on a poor starting engine
    Save a helluva lot on batteries over the years!!

    Not sure if Mack trucks are sold in UK. Some had air motor starters; would scare the proverbial out of ya if one went off behind you unexpectedly!
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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    How about one of these spring starters on a Morgan then!





    I used to look after a 3 cyl lister with one of these on a 6ft vibrating roller, they're not ideal on a poor starting engine
    looks a lot like the one on our B250d

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    Re: Any chance of a bit of help please ?

    If that was an E1A or a Power Major it wouldn't start like that when cold. It would if it was a Super and you'd pushed the button in.

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