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Thread: Accuracy of seed depth control.

  1. #1
    fred
    Guest

    Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Is it important ,?

    If so

    Which opener does it the best and why?

  2. #2
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Is it important ,?

    If so

    Which opener does it the best and why?
    I think the 750a has to be about the best in this respect

    and does it matter ? well if it does't we may as al broadcast our crops

  3. #3
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Birds slugs pre ems and seed vigour to name a few!would have thought cross slot with its variable hydraulics?

  4. #4
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post

    Which opener does it the best and why?
    Bertini..... because I've got one and Will says so

  5. #5
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    yes it does matter , on our trials you can now see exactly which drills had good seed depth placement and those that didnt by the hollows left in the crop
    and most of the problem came from drilling at a slight angle to the original tramlines and as the drill wheel went in and out and it buried it one side but left it on the surface on the other

  6. #6
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seat Right Back View Post
    yes it does matter , on our trials you can now see exactly which drills had good seed depth placement and those that didnt by the hollows left in the crop
    and most of the problem came from drilling at a slight angle to the original tramlines and as the drill wheel went in and out and it buried it one side but left it on the surface on the other
    more detail !

    so which were poor and which were good in the trial??

    I think I know what won't come out looking good if recall correctly what drills you compared

  7. #7
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    more detail !

    so which were poor and which were good in the trial??

    I think I know what won't come out looking good if recall correctly what drills you compared
    oghhh , dont put me in that position clive

    come and have a look when we have our next walk around and then you can see with your own eyes

    but it would be fair to say that only 1 of the 4 drills didnt have that problem

    but it would also be fair to say that 1 of the drills was half as wide again as all the others so its problem was magnified

  8. #8
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seat Right Back View Post
    oghhh , dont put me in that position clive

    come and have a look when we have our next walk around and then you can see with your own eyes

    but it would be fair to say that only 1 of the 4 drills didnt have that problem

    but it would also be fair to say that 1 of the drills was half as wide again as all the others so its problem was magnified
    no point in trials that don't publish their results

    I "think" i know the answer to my own question however on this occasion

    would love to come and see the results sometime, let me know when !

  9. #9
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    no point in trials that don't publish their results

    I "think" i know the answer to my own question however on this occasion

    would love to come and see the results sometime, let me know when !
    fair enough , but have shown a lot of people around and I have always tried to give a fair and unbiased view and hopefully they left with something to think about , but unfortunately it does seem that I have come down against a certain coloured drill , to be fair to all the drills the barley all looks well although the conventionaly drilled barley still looks as good as any .
    On the wheat then there is one drill that it would be fair to say struggled in places , for two thirds of its acreage the wheat looks well , as well as all the other drills but the other third does not look as happy , very gappy and if it doesnt show up in yield I would be most surprised

  10. #10
    benferg
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    why can't I find a website for the makers of the Bertini drill?

  11. #11
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by benferg View Post
    why can't I find a website for the makers of the Bertini drill?
    http://www.bertini.com.ar/


    If you are on flattish land then you can get away without independent depth control but if you want to drill into slightly compressed spots, across a slope etc then things start to get compromised.

    But if you want to drill all your seed at the correct depth - and why should you not? - then its difficult to do without independent depth control. In many circumstances it may not matter but in others it will.

  12. #12
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seat Right Back View Post
    :
    On the wheat then there is one drill that it would be fair to say struggled in places , for two thirds of its acreage the wheat looks well , as well as all the other drills but the other third does not look as happy , very gappy and if it doesnt show up in yield I would be most surprised
    Is the ground more undulating or is it just pest pressure or poorer soil? I'm not sure I'd be too keen to point the finger at a drill if the other 2/3 is ok?

  13. #13
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Is the ground more undulating or is it just pest pressure or poorer soil? I'm not sure I'd be too keen to point the finger at a drill if the other 2/3 is ok?
    It depends on the spatial distribution of the poorer 1/3. If it is intermingled amongst the better 2/3 then that the drill is more likely to have been responsible.

  14. #14
    fred
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    What I was getting at was independent coulter control versus frame only control.

    To be honest, if the field is generally level then, surely we don't need independent control, but is this because of years of levelling through cultivation, and if so does it over time become, unlevel. Thus needing independent control.

  15. #15
    Elmsted
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    This year due to logistics and practicalities we used more pressure per row on an independent row depth planter. This extra pressure was to achieve same depth behind tractor Wheeling's in a NO TILL scenario.

    It is now clearly evident where each planting pass was made. Hence our choice to triple the planter width and use tracks not tyres.

    However fertiliser placement at planting was frame mounted and on undulating ground an 8 row 70 cm spacing planter the inability to get depth control right was clear.
    Seed depth control is a vital factor in our view as is equally fertiliser. Bring back the MF 30 drill

  16. #16
    knockie
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Aye, the best controlled traffic is no traffic
    SD.

  17. #17
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post

    To be honest, if the field is generally level then, surely we don't need independent control, but is this because of years of levelling through cultivation, and if so does it over time become, unlevel. Thus needing independent control.
    Yes I think it can and does happen. Gentle ruts or compressions from balers, muck spreaders, combines etc. but you may not want to till the whole thing to level it up.

  18. #18
    Elmsted
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Having had the luck for a regular contributor to this forum visit me a couple of weeks ago.
    And he seeing us taking on another coupla hundred hectares using plough and discs not to level up but simply put to generate a crop that pays us back puts in place the absurd dogma which you preach namely that there is but one option. Your travels and experiences so well regaled seem to have closed not opened the mind. Though I candidly admit from your standpoint I might share the same view point.

    Kind regards.

    Elmsted.

  19. #19
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmsted View Post
    Having had the luck for a regular contributor to this forum visit me a couple of weeks ago.
    And he seeing us taking on another coupla hundred hectares using plough and discs not to level up but simply put to generate a crop that pays us back puts in place the absurd dogma which you preach namely that there is but one option. Your travels and experiences so well regaled seem to have closed not opened the mind. Though I candidly admit from your standpoint I might share the same view point.

    Kind regards.

    Elmsted.
    Er why don't you stick to the topic about seed placement rather than trying to criticise me? You are making assumptions that are incorrect and as you do not know me I find them offensive.

    I have never preached there is one option - get this into your brain - I DON'T CARE HOW FARMERS ESTABLISH THEIR CROPS. Is that clear enough for you?

    This is a British Forum about Direct Drilling which is where we can talk about it and share ideas about how to do it. Why don't you go off to a Romanian Ploughing forum to talk about what a marvellous job you are doing instead of bothering this one?

    Idiot.

  20. #20
    charlie brown
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Er why don't you stick to the topic about seed placement rather than trying to criticise me? You are making assumptions that are incorrect and as you do not know me I find them offensive.

    I have never preached there is one option - get this into your brain - I DON'T CARE HOW FARMERS ESTABLISH THEIR CROPS. Is that clear enough for you?

    This is a British Forum about Direct Drilling which is where we can talk about it and share ideas about how to do it. Why don't you go off to a Romanian Ploughing forum to talk about what a marvellous job you are doing instead of bothering this one?

    Idiot.

    Ouch! steady on, don't let the dd side of the BFF descend to some of the childish name calling seen elsewhere please.

    For what its worth I happen to think that the most important factor in depth control is to place the seed in moisture, and sometimes that does involve drilling deeper than you perhaps would normally.

    Hence you (usually) need a tine. (Like the Baker boot)

  21. #21
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie brown View Post
    Ouch! steady on, don't let the dd side of the BFF descend to some of the childish name calling seen elsewhere please.

    For what its worth I happen to think that the most important factor in depth control is to place the seed in moisture, and sometimes that does involve drilling deeper than you perhaps would normally.

    Hence you (usually) need a tine. (Like the Baker boot)
    I didn't start it. I don't like being insulted by people who don't know me. I think Elmsted is trolling.

  22. #22
    kpa
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    What I was getting at was independent coulter control versus frame only control.

    To be honest, if the field is generally level then, surely we don't need independent control, but is this because of years of levelling through cultivation, and if so does it over time become, unlevel. Thus needing independent control.
    +1
    Depth is not the only factor nor is seed to soil contact on its own. If the soil is too dry for too long seed won't grow well if at all, sown deeper can be better, provided not compacted above it.

    If not enough care has been taken to avoid wheelings the proportion of the field that is overcompacted may justify extra work or even ploughing. Though if you've been DD for long you will lose a lot by ploughing.

    Overtime the soil will restructure. The question is will the extra yield, if any, from extra cultivations pay for them. Bearing in mind cultivations followed by prolonged drought compromise seed establishment.

  23. #23
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    I think good consolidation is just as important as depth control - many drills (direct, mintil and conventional) seem to lack in this area

  24. #24
    mbsrhol
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Idiot.
    No need for that.

  25. #25
    kpa
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I think good consolidation is just as important as depth control - many drills (direct, mintil and conventional) seem to lack in this area
    Comes back to don't put an idiot on the drill

  26. #26
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpa View Post
    Comes back to don't put an idiot on the drill
    an idiot will never do a good job with any drill or any cultivation system

    some drills loosen a lot of soil though in the name of compaction removal and then lack the ability to re consolidate which leads on to many problems

  27. #27
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    going to slightly disagree here

    we had pretty level seedbeds which we drilled into last year and were advised to drill at a slight angle to the tramlines and reuse the previous tramlines , all very good in principle but the claydon which was a 4.8 m model as a wheel dropped in and then out of the tramline then seed went in either to deep on one side of the drill and left on the surface on the other and believe me the chap on the drill was no muppet so dont start trying to blame the operator and for this reason alone we will be putting proper tramlines in next year in our trials

    and to try and to be fair to the claydon a couple of the other drills had a similar hastle but because they were smaller drills then the deviation wasnt as great

  28. #28
    pylon dodger
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seat Right Back View Post
    going to slightly disagree here

    we had pretty level seedbeds which we drilled into last year and were advised to drill at a slight angle to the tramlines and reuse the previous tramlines , all very good in principle but the claydon which was a 4.8 m model as a wheel dropped in and then out of the tramline then seed went in either to deep on one side of the drill and left on the surface on the other and believe me the chap on the drill was no muppet so dont start trying to blame the operator and for this reason alone we will be putting proper tramlines in next year in our trials

    and to try and to be fair to the claydon a couple of the other drills had a similar hastle but because they were smaller drills then the deviation wasnt as great

    What drill was it? We find this with our 4.8 v drill. Each side of the tramline (Not every field) but in some but thought with more wheels on the newer hybrid or 6m V drills it would stop this.

    Problem is some of our tramlines are set out by our old vaddy drill and the v drill dose not work out with the tramlines in the same place and have found that its worst if one of the wheels happens to be running in a old tramlime .

    Somtimes the bit of a mound you get each side of each wheel in the tramline is enough to lift the drill out from optimum depth.

  29. #29
    Elmsted
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Accuracy of seed depth control versus tramlines seems to be an issue. We do not have tramlines or want them. In row crops such as sunflowers or Maize it is not needed in Rape and wheat equally not necessary.

    As to the assertions made regarding my earlier post I care not a jot.

    Independent row systems seem to cover the subject. Whereas frame mounted do not.

  30. #30
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: Accuracy of seed depth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by pylon dodger View Post
    What drill was it? We find this with our 4.8 v drill. Each side of the tramline (Not every field) but in some but thought with more wheels on the newer hybrid or 6m V drills it would stop this.

    Problem is some of our tramlines are set out by our old vaddy drill and the v drill dose not work out with the tramlines in the same place and have found that its worst if one of the wheels happens to be running in a old tramlime .

    Somtimes the bit of a mound you get each side of each wheel in the tramline is enough to lift the drill out from optimum depth.

    It was a hybrid , but at least Im not the only one , was begining to feel like the chief muppeteer

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