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Thread: Advice for new DD'er

  1. #31
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Clive,

    Good luck with the new project, i am sure you will make it work, but yield must be maintained at all costs IMO.

    I think having a disc and tine option is a good idea for all crops and situations, but i think chopped straw into second wheat is def a situation where sludge or N would be a benefit.
    On our soils i would like to try a light discing[Carrier type] in order to get a better chit of blackgrass, vol cereals or bromes before drilling as rakes are not always effective, and your grass weedbank could increase dramatically.

    I have drilled a bit of W Barley into chopped straw after wheat this year for the first time, have seen quite bad brome due to dry seedbeds prior to drilling and poor chit with a rake.

    Your tracked combine and chaser bin will be ideal to minimise compaction.

  2. #32
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by texas pete View Post
    Interesting to hear your change of approach Clive.

    What do you plan to drill your OSR with into chopped wheat straw if you don't mind me asking.
    Lees mzuri

  3. #33
    Cropper
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    So there are a lot more factors at work here than we might think ( i'm starting to wish i'd paid more attention in soil science lectures!). Soil microbial activity needs to increase to breakdown the organic matter to gums and poly-saccharides which hold the soil particles together to create a good structure that will allow water to drain through and also hold nutrients and smaller particles in the 'mesh'. Is there any information on which chemicals are the least damaging to soil microbes or which should be avoided for the same reason?

    It seems both research papers mentioned agree that to remove a proportion of crop residues (<40%?) over the rotation is not going to be disastrous so perhaps a good idea to remove wheat straw before drilling osr ? What are others doing in this situation?

    Thanks for all the contributions, it is definitely an interesting topic!

    Cropper

  4. #34
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by Cropper View Post
    So there are a lot more factors at work here than we might think ( i'm starting to wish i'd paid more attention in soil science lectures!). Soil microbial activity needs to increase to breakdown the organic matter to gums and poly-saccharides which hold the soil particles together to create a good structure that will allow water to drain through and also hold nutrients and smaller particles in the 'mesh'. Is there any information on which chemicals are the least damaging to soil microbes or which should be avoided for the same reason?

    It seems both research papers mentioned agree that to remove a proportion of crop residues (<40%?) over the rotation is not going to be disastrous so perhaps a good idea to remove wheat straw before drilling osr ? What are others doing in this situation?

    Thanks for all the contributions, it is definitely an interesting topic!

    Cropper
    Not really but obviously fungicides have an affect on soil fungus, insecticides on a lot of beneficial insects etc.

    Roundup is seen as relatively benign to soil life but they all have issues.

    My own view is removing some crop residue from time to time is not the worst thing in the world. But robbing it is a different matter.

  5. #35
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldspar View Post
    I found a paper entitled, "Quantifying Straw Removal through Baling and Measuring the Long-Term Impact on Soil Quality and Wheat Production", by Lafond et al. (2009) whose abstract is,


    Crop residues are considered the feedstock of choice for the production of ethanol, but removing crop residues may negatively impact soil productivity. The objectives were to quantify the proportion of total aboveground crop residues removed through baling and to evaluate the effects of 50 yr of straw removal with baling on soil quality and wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) production. The first study evaluated three harvesting systems and their impact on straw removal with baling. The second study measured straw removal after 50 yr on soil quality and wheat production using a fallow-spring wheat-spring wheat rotation (F-W-W) with three different treatments imposed. One treatment was not fertilized with straw retained, and the other two were fertilized with N and P but one treatment retained the straw while the other had the straw baled every year during the cropping years. The proportion of total aboveground residues other than grain removed with baling ranged from 22 to 35% or 26 to 40% depending on the method of calculation based on the first study. Measurements of soil organic carbon (SOC) and nitrogen (SON) showed no differences after 50 yr of straw removal, and spring wheat grain yields and grain protein concentration were also not affected based on the second study. The potential therefore exists to use crop residues for ethanol production or other industrial purposes without adversely affecting the long-term productivity of medium- to heavy-textured soils providing that <40% of the total aboveground residues other than grain are removed and the frequency of removal is no more than 2 yr out of three.

    Their conclusions would seem to support the view that not retaining soil residues not only doesn't have any effect on yield but also, and surprisingly for me anyway, have no effect on SOC.


    This is of course only one study. I had a look at their funding source and there are no obvious conflicts of interest. If anyone is interested in the full paper let me know.

    Edited to add: actually after a bit more digging there are a lot of studies that have been done on this.
    Incorporating straw will never increase soil carbon.

    The cultivation required to do this will be burning off more carbon than you are actually putting in with the straw.

    The only way is to let the worms take the straw down, where it can stay undisturbed.

  6. #36
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by texas pete View Post
    Interesting to hear your change of approach Clive.

    What do you plan to drill your OSR with into chopped wheat straw if you don't mind me asking.
    There are a few factors here this season ! Land going into OSR is all getting sewage slugde this autumn and I had already committed to sell straw from it a while ago at a good price which I won't go back on

    I still have HP and a solo with terrcast on it that we have been using successfully so that will be the easy solution this year as I have to incorperate the sludge. However if conditions are right for a good stale seedbed I will drill the OSR with the 750a into the stale seedbed instead of doing it off the back of the solo - the cost saving of the 1 pass establishment does not outweigh the opertunity to kill grass weeds and as I have to cultivate in this situation I may as well get the max benefit from doing so

    I do have possibly some options available to also try a tine drill and also a Mzuri - both of which will be interesting

    Going forward to next year I would hope to have the option of a tine drill here alongside the 750a maybe, I probably won't have the HP that I have now at that point if all goes to plan so the solo will have to go in favor of something light like a carrier to incorporate sludge instead


    Quote Originally Posted by agricontract View Post
    Lees mzuri
    If he had one I would !

  7. #37
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    slugs will be a MASSIVE issue this autumn. perfect breeding season

    wont be no tilling osr as a result, and contemplating shakerating ahead of all cereals

  8. #38
    Shutesy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I still have HP and a solo with terrcast on it that we have been using successfully so that will be the easy solution this year as I have to incorperate the sludge. However if conditions are right for a good stale seedbed I will drill the OSR with the 750a into the stale seedbed instead of doing it off the back of the solo - the cost saving of the 1 pass establishment does not outweigh the opertunity to kill grass weeds and as I have to cultivate in this situation I may as well get the max benefit from doing so

    I do have possibly some options available to also try a tine drill and also a Mzuri - both of which will be interesting
    Sounds like a great chance for a bit of a comparison over the next growing year. Solo and terracast vs 750A vs Mzuri vs Tined drill. Comparision of overall yield and establishment costs etc?

  9. #39
    martian
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    Quote Originally Posted by Cropper View Post
    So there are a lot more factors at work here than we might think ( i'm starting to wish i'd paid more attention in soil science lectures!). Soil microbial activity needs to increase to breakdown the organic matter to gums and poly-saccharides which hold the soil particles together to create a good structure that will allow water to drain through and also hold nutrients and smaller particles in the 'mesh'. Is there any information on which chemicals are the least damaging to soil microbes or which should be avoided for the same reason?

    It seems both research papers mentioned agree that to remove a proportion of crop residues (<40%?) over the rotation is not going to be disastrous so perhaps a good idea to remove wheat straw before drilling osr ? What are others doing in this situation?

    Thanks for all the contributions, it is definitely an interesting topic!

    Cropper
    I'm with you in wishing I'd stayed awake in 'Soil Science' lectures, though I'm sure they weren't this interesting, then!

    In answer to your last question, we have dd-ed osr in for last ten years and always remove straw of previous wheat or barley. But it is for our own use and comes back next year coated with cowshit. Drilled cover-crops into chopped wheat straw (with 750a) with some success last year, but think we'll try tines this time, especially if it's this wet...it is good to get under the mat rather than trying to slice through it.

  10. #40
    yelrabtaehw
    Guest

    Re: Advice for new DD'er

    We have drilled OSR Straight into chopped WW straw for years, with first our own drill(simular to Dale) and now with Amazone Primera.Always had good crops from about 3-3.5Kg/hectare.We now put starter fert down row with seed to give good start but used to broadcast after drill.

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