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Thread: fairness !!

  1. #1
    linga
    Guest

    fairness !!

    I went to a parish council meeting today re wind turbine planning application.
    Only invited because one of the local councillors is a decent sort...they have already held a meeting during which objectors appear to have been invited and not me.

    Anyway at this meeting one of the objectors was invited to the table to speak and proceeded to deliver her lengthy speech all in Welsh.
    My son started to translate for me but was told to stop by the chairman and no translation was offered at the end so I could not respond.

    Not only that but this objector sat at the councillors table all the way through and my effort had to be made from outside the circle.
    Somehow I think I have been stitched up

    Wonderful !!!

  2. #2
    clover
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    I would have thought it good manners to allow a translation.If you were German it would surely be considered sensible to allow your translator to translate for you?

  3. #3
    applesquasher
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Nice people.

  4. #4
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    I thought it was a requirement for translation to be available....anyway I dont think it would make any difference....their minds have been made up. Simply a case of knowing the right people I suspect

  5. #5
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by linga View Post
    I went to a parish council meeting today re wind turbine planning application.
    Only invited because one of the local councillors is a decent sort...they have already held a meeting during which objectors appear to have been invited and not me.

    Anyway at this meeting one of the objectors was invited to the table to speak and proceeded to deliver her lengthy speech all in Welsh.
    My son started to translate for me but was told to stop by the chairman and no translation was offered at the end so I could not respond.

    Not only that but this objector sat at the councillors table all the way through and my effort had to be made from outside the circle.
    Somehow I think I have been stitched up

    Wonderful !!!
    Disgusting behaviour that, they should be ashamed of themselves.

  6. #6
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Dont think they care....all decided beforehand. Trouble is I have only been here 40 years so am an incomer and my rights should be lessened because of that ...thats been made pretty clear to me by some.

  7. #7
    dragon farmer
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    yes thats right!! which generation do you have to be to be local is it third or fourth generation, not many people can claim to live in the area where there great grandparents lived!!

  8. #8
    Exfarmer
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    there is none so stupid as those who wont listen

  9. #9
    JohnDeere8530
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    report Parish council to local district council, objector should not sit at main table and you should be given every opportunity to listen to and express your opinions. It is a public open meeting

  10. #10
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    yes , I am not going to let it rest but I am not sure if it was an open meeting , well it seemed to be for objectors who get to know that these meetings are taking place but not necessarily for anyone else.

  11. #11
    giles1
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Presumably meting was minuted?Should be able to get hold of a copy.

  12. #12
    JohnDeere8530
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    all parish council meetings are automatically deemed to be open to public and press unless a sensitive matter needs to be addressed. The meeting then can be closed, but the parishioners have to be pre-notified of this via parish council notice board/websites etc. However if it were closed then nobody except councillors would be allowed in, so in your case as you were there it was open. You have an opportunity to speak at all Parish meetings, normally at the beginning of the meeting. You cannot interupt and speak when the council are conducting their business, however most are fairly lax in this aspect if the speaker is polite.

    If you are aggrieved then set your grievances out in writing to your local district council and copy the clerk to the parish council in. Keep to the facts setting them out clearly and dont ramble. Above all be business like and polite

    Personally I would ring the clerk when they are next in the office and speak to them first

    You have to remember Parish council has very little power in their own right and often district councils take little notice of them. However that said if a decision is on a knife edge then getting the support of the Parish Council can help things. However you case seems quite a big planning issue regarding turbines, so I guess whatever a few parishioners or councilors think will be immaterial in the whole scale of things. I hope you have a planning consultant acting on your behalf ?

    Minutes are not normally formalised until next meeting

  13. #13
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Thanks.

  14. #14
    sprocket
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    I would think local newspaper might be interested too!

  15. #15
    pontyboy
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by linga View Post
    Dont think they care....all decided beforehand. Trouble is I have only been here 40 years so am an incomer and my rights should be lessened because of that ...thats been made pretty clear to me by some.

    so you've been here 40 years and still haven't learnt welsh? hmmm

  16. #16
    applesquasher
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by pontyboy View Post
    so you've been here 40 years and still haven't learnt welsh? hmmm
    Less than 25% of the natives have bothered, why should the OP?

  17. #17
    pontyboy
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by applesquasher View Post
    Less than 25% of the natives have bothered, why should the OP?

    maybe if he was in the east of the country,down this way tho and especially if farming most do try and learn.and being that he's been here 40 years then nearly all farmers would have been welsh speaking when he got here.

  18. #18
    clover
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by pontyboy View Post
    maybe if he was in the east of the country,down this way tho and especially if farming most do try and learn.and being that he's been here 40 years then nearly all farmers would have been welsh speaking when he got here.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this point.However,the OP should have been allowed to have his own interpreter translate for him,at no cost to the Parish Council.

  19. #19
    yellow belly
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    at my parish council meetings the public are invited .the public can have their sat in the 10 minutes prior to the meeting thereafter they then can stay and hear the discusion

  20. #20
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by pontyboy View Post
    so you've been here 40 years and still haven't learnt welsh? hmmm
    sorry...my family have been here 40 years. I have been here on and off for that time

    Anyway thats not the point... it would be fair I think if I could understand what the objections were.

  21. #21
    Irish Bob
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere8530 View Post
    all parish council meetings are automatically deemed to be open to public and press unless a sensitive matter needs to be addressed. The meeting then can be closed, but the parishioners have to be pre-notified of this via parish council notice board/websites etc. However if it were closed then nobody except councillors would be allowed in, so in your case as you were there it was open. You have an opportunity to speak at all Parish meetings, normally at the beginning of the meeting. You cannot interupt and speak when the council are conducting their business, however most are fairly lax in this aspect if the speaker is polite.

    If you are aggrieved then set your grievances out in writing to your local district council and copy the clerk to the parish council in. Keep to the facts setting them out clearly and dont ramble. Above all be business like and polite


    Personally I would ring the clerk when they are next in the office and speak to them first

    You have to remember Parish council has very little power in their own right and often district councils take little notice of them. However that said if a decision is on a knife edge then getting the support of the Parish Council can help things. However you case seems quite a big planning issue regarding turbines, so I guess whatever a few parishioners or councilors think will be immaterial in the whole scale of things. I hope you have a planning consultant acting on your behalf ?

    Minutes are not normally formalised until next meeting
    Parish councils are consultees. They think they have more power than in fact is the case.

  22. #22
    john432
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    I don't think your experience Linga at the parish council meeting was just a Welsh,"hating the english" thing. Heck, us native Welsh speakers are in the minority I would think. People hate wind turbines, why? because if they arn't going to make money out of them, then they will do their damdest to stop you ! simple as that! The fact that they used the welsh language to exclude you from the preceedings just shows how pathetic a bunch of Parish councillers you have.

    My parish council hasn't had an election for probably 20 years. can't get anyone to stand, people are asked if they would be willing to take the post.Maybe i and a few friends who have suitable wind turbine sites better get ourselvs onto the council, now that's democracy

  23. #23
    linga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    I dont think it was either ...simply a case of feeble councillors being knobbled by a vocal minority. In fact it seems that many sitting on the council could not speak welsh themselves so how they come to a conclusion I have no idea.


    Actually I am content if people object if they make their objection after informing themselves of what is proposed but in this case ( as in most probably) few have had the intellect to do that.
    On the other hand one chap from up the road took the trouble to come and tell me that he felt he had to object and was sorry about that..I thought that was a very decent thing to do and told him so

    I had one person going on about how the community wouldnt benefit so I suggested i would be very happy to offer shares in the project...but I dont think thats quite what he meant !

    Anyway its up to the planners now ...but if i dont get it I fancy looking at anaerobic digestion and taking in abattoir waste !!

  24. #24
    farfrae
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    You need to complain to the Standards Committee of your local District or County Council with ultimate responsibility see

    http://www.lgo.org.uk/publications/f...rish-councils/

    The Parish Council are clearly in the wrong here. There may also be contraventions of the Equality Act 2010

    http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/a...equality-duty/


    and you can contact the helpline here

    http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/a...-our-helpline/

  25. #25
    Dr Evil
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by linga View Post
    sorry...my family have been here 40 years. I have been here on and off for that time

    Anyway thats not the point... it would be fair I think if I could understand what the objections were.

    From memory, the council would be legally obliged to provide simutainious translation to you if you couldn't understand. What part of Ceredigion are you in if you don't mind me asking?

  26. #26
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Parish Council is just a talking shop.
    County Councillors are the ones you need behind you. Next door but one has just had permission to build a windmill in an especially sensitive area and none of Ceredigion's councillors voted against it. That despite the Council planning chief being dead against it.
    I did attend a site meeting and almost all the objectors were people who had summer houses in the village below and lived away. Most wanted everything preserved as it was when they bought their properties [or even built them] but just after they had made their alterations.

    Work has started on the access road already.

  27. #27
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by applesquasher View Post
    Less than 25% of the natives have bothered, why should the OP?
    In rural Ceredigion it will be more like 80% and rising. He should bother because he could then at least understand the 80%

    My local parish council is all Welsh speaking and they intend to keep it that way for very good reasons and with no apology.

  28. #28
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
    From memory, the council would be legally obliged to provide simutainious translation to you if you couldn't understand. What part of Ceredigion are you in if you don't mind me asking?
    At whose cost? They would probably translate their own discussion if asked, or at least summarise, but commentators from the crowd are another thing.

    Common courtesy would have been nice though and I'm sure there would have been no objection to translation in my own parish council now that the biggest arsehole there has been banned from public office for the longest term ever in Ceredigion.

  29. #29
    Dr Evil
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    At whose cost? They would probably translate their own discussion if asked, or at least summarise, but commentators from the crowd are another thing.

    Common courtesy would have been nice though and I'm sure there would have been no objection to translation in my own parish council now that the biggest arsehole there has been banned from public office for the longest term ever in Ceredigion.
    It would be at the cost of the Community council I think- certainly is at county council meetings. Farming connect meetings etc are usually funded by WG. Girlfriend does a bit of the translation work using the headpieces you often see.
    Couldn't see our local parish council having an objection to translating either (in Ceredigion at least- can't say I know who our new Parish councillors are in Carmarthenshire yet).
    In general- I think you'd struggle to find a county council much more "farming" orientated in terms of decisions than the Ceredigion CC in Wales (if you disregard their opposition to barn conversions for dwellings that is).

  30. #30
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: fairness !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
    It would be at the cost of the Community council I think- certainly is at county council meetings. Farming connect meetings etc are usually funded by WG. Girlfriend does a bit of the translation work using the headpieces you often see.
    Couldn't see our local parish council having an objection to translating either (in Ceredigion at least- can't say I know who our new Parish councillors are in Carmarthenshire yet).
    In general- I think you'd struggle to find a county council much more "farming" orientated in terms of decisions than the Ceredigion CC in Wales (if you disregard their opposition to barn conversions for dwellings that is).
    They could easily swallow their whole budget on translation services at a parish level. Which is presumably why they don't do it as a rule and only do it informally otherwise.

    Time to cut down on the cost of government.

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