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Thread: New Sprayer Choice

  1. #1
    banana bar
    Guest

    New Sprayer Choice

    Running 2 Batemans at the moment that will both need replacing over the next 18mth - 2yrs. Narrowed it down to Sands or stick with Bateman. 32m 4000lt. Would wecome views on both options please.

    BB

  2. #2
    jfdi
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Any idea what sort of money the Leeb is? Looks an impressive machine, there are loads of sands around here and they are usually replaced with another.
    IMO Bateman are playing catchup with every other manufacturer at the moment on what is becoming a dated product, the back up and good residuals will keep em selling.

  3. #3
    deere_8520
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Lee surely the horsch is unproven at the moment there is very little about it at the moment correct me if wrong. We have a Bateman rb35 coming its been made now, we tried a sands and while it was a good machine well built we felt the backup and support of the Bateman to be better.

  4. #4
    Proper Job
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by jfdi View Post
    Any idea what sort of money the Leeb is? Looks an impressive machine, there are loads of sands around here and they are usually replaced with another.
    IMO Bateman are playing catchup with every other manufacturer at the moment on what is becoming a dated product, the back up and good residuals will keep em selling.
    Bateman maybe dated but they are simple and easy to fix if they do go wrong, and with such excellent back up any major downtime is rarely a problem hence why the secondhand machines have such strong residuals. When you watch the demos at cereals no other boom rides as well as the Bateman VG, so dated yes but if it ain't broke..........

  5. #5
    AFX9010
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    In my view Bateman is very over rated and dated now. Looking at all the sprayer at cereals the bateman was the worst from a drivers point of view with a very dated cab. If I was buying I would be looking at either the rogator or amazone pantera I think.

  6. #6
    AFX9010
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Proper Job View Post
    Bateman maybe dated but they are simple and easy to fix if they do go wrong, and with such excellent back up any major downtime is rarely a problem hence why the secondhand machines have such strong residuals. When you watch the demos at cereals no other boom rides as well as the Bateman VG, so dated yes but if it ain't broke..........
    I must of been looking at another demo plot I think because I thought it rode very badly compared to some of the other sprayers at cereals. On the other hand it was leaps and bounds above the agrifac which was a complete joke

  7. #7
    banana bar
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by AFX9010 View Post
    I must of been looking at another demo plot I think because I thought it rode very badly compared to some of the other sprayers at cereals. On the other hand it was leaps and bounds above the agrifac which was a complete joke
    Agree about Agrifac, very slow over the plot and very very slow boom folding / unfolding. Cab was best out there though.

    BB

  8. #8
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    I would look no further than Bateman - they are not perfect just like any machine but they are still the best of the bunch IMO

    I will be changing ours next year again and won't be looking anywhere else

    Yes they break, when a sprayer is doing 1000hrs a year it will do - wheel motors are the same on any other make so why anyone would think a Sands or Househam wheel motor would be any more or less reliable doesn't really know what they are talking about

    Back up from Bateman is faultless, I have said it before but they put the BIG factor manufactures to shame in this respect

    When it comes to residual values does anything even get close ? The 2 Batemans we have run over the last 10 years here have provided me with hassle free and cheap spraying, i'm sure the next one will be equally as good

    If it 'aint broke don't fix it !

  9. #9
    Oscar
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    My views but I will admit that I am a Bateman owner and the factory is an hour away which makes a big difference.
    Agrifac: very impressed with build and cab but 9 months ago they could nt offer 32m with 24m fold down and no boom height control, quote was 30k dearer than Bateman. For me in SW dealer/importer too far away ref back up
    Challenger: as above no fold down, good machine but physically huge and heavy,price was stupid for spec 70k higher than Bateman, unproven dealer a long way from home.
    Amazone:Rode well on demo but did nt like booms as they look weak and light but am told they are well proven. Dealer very keen to sell [and has sold one] but been told by staff that they are doing updates and mods on a monthly basis at moment so maybe it would be best to wait 12 months ??Price, cheaper than Bateman.
    Houseman/Sands/Knight: no quote for me due to East base and maybe lack of back up so no comment on machine.
    So for me its another new Bateman RB35, well made,proven and great back up but agree and have told them they need to update it to keep up with the opposition ie, more room and comfort in the cab,cruise control and TMS type engine control etc.

  10. #10
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Hi BB

    Will you change 2 sp for 2sp? Why not a 5000l rb55 backed up by a mixer bowser on one of your 7530s. Then get trailed 5000L for other JD when conditions allow (T1 -T2 plus big bulk of liquid N) gives lots of flexibility plus capacity for growth?!!

    Regards Tom

  11. #11
    jfdi
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Yep looks impressive and with a pommier boom its an impressive package, the only downside is no hydraulic track width and the price, reckon it will be rogator money

  12. #12
    mx 270
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    We have a self prop sprayer from a midlands based company and i dont think our boss will go there again.Only had it a few months and we wish we d never seen it,build quaility and back up SO FAR are rubbish.Just dont understand how a company can appear to sell good products but in the real world :cry: anyway will wait to see what happens in the coming days as have been told their on the case Also just bought a trailed sprayer from a well known lincolnshire company best known for liquid fert application so will see how that gets on in the coming days.

  13. #13
    Jack Russell
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Part of iot depends on what land your on, for us weight is an issue so have stuck to bateman (although Sands would run a close second). These larger machines like challenger and Agrifac are way to big and in seasons such as these have shown their faults around us. Also alot of these are new machines and are still being developed in the field such as Challenger, so the reliability issue is even more questionable. The Leeb sprayer I believe has been developed by Leeb and Horsch. I think they have had a hand in the Leeb business for alot of years but only now at the marketing end. It will be an exceptional machine I believe but the weight is far to high for us.

  14. #14
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Have to agree that the current trend to bigger and bigger self propelled seems daft - Cereals was full of them and I wouldn't fancy the chances of most of them this season

    these 6000 L trailed machines are just stupidity IMO

    rb35 is plenty heavy enough for me thanks and if I was looking to change brands I would be looking for less weight not more

  15. #15
    banana bar
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Have to agree that the current trend to bigger and bigger self propelled seems daft - Cereals was full of them and I wouldn't fancy the chances of most of them this season

    these 6000 L trailed machines are just stupidity IMO

    rb35 is plenty heavy enough for me thanks and if I was looking to change brands I would be looking for less weight not more

    Absolutley agree with that, cannot see where the additional output is with a "big" sp over a Bateman type (apart from huge tank which is only a benefit when dry). Our 2 Batemans will always have infinetly more output than one big sp even with back up.

    BB

  16. #16
    devils advocate
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Have to agree that the current trend to bigger and bigger self propelled seems daft - Cereals was full of them and I wouldn't fancy the chances of most of them this season

    these 6000 L trailed machines are just stupidity IMO

    rb35 is plenty heavy enough for me thanks and if I was looking to change brands I would be looking for less weight not more


    http://www.leeagra.com/_OLD_leespray...ce-sprayer.php

  17. #17
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by devils advocate View Post
    maybe going a bit far !!

  18. #18
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    The price of these big sprayers is more down to sopfistication rather than tank size.

    As for large tanks they are great because you don't have to fill them. A SP with an 8000l tank can still go spraying with 2000l in it but when conditions allow you have an 80ha tank capability.

    As somebody that's been looking at various 2nd hand machines recently I must say Bateman are not on the list because of the problems I've seen with the one that sprays here and also another one a fellow forum member owned because it was unaffordable to run it. I don't think the newer ones are as reliable as the 16 and 25 machines.

    That said my conclusion is if your buying a hydro used SP it's best to factor in a wheel motor overhaul on every brand.

    On paper a trailed machine is right but works out more expensive to run when tractor running costs are added in. A tractor costing 30/hr to run working with a trailed sprayer working at 20ac /hr puts in a base cost of 1.50/ac before the sprayer is accounted for.
    so in a 10 hour day you only spray 100acres not very cost efective

  19. #19
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    The price of these big sprayers is more down to sopfistication rather than tank size.

    As for large tanks they are great because you don't have to fill them. A SP with an 8000l tank can still go spraying with 2000l in it but when conditions allow you have an 80ha tank capability.

    As somebody that's been looking at various 2nd hand machines recently I must say Bateman are not on the list because of the problems I've seen with the one that sprays here and also another one a fellow forum member owned because it was unaffordable to run it. I don't think the newer ones are as reliable as the 16 and 25 machines.

    That said my conclusion is if your buying a hydro used SP it's best to factor in a wheel motor overhaul on every brand.

    On paper a trailed machine is right but works out more expensive to run when tractor running costs are added in. A tractor costing 30/hr to run working with a trailed sprayer working at 20ac /hr puts in a base cost of 1.50/ac before the sprayer is accounted for.
    why do you think a Bateman would cost any more than a househam or sands etc to run ? they all use basically the same bits and all use polcliam wheel motors, there is no difference in their reliability down to the colour they are painted and they will all break down on you one day for sure. bateman, Sands, Househam are much simpler machines than stuff like the Challanger, Leob etc and as a result should be more reliable not less

    with that in mind what matters is who has the best back-up - in 10 years of bateman ownership I have never lost more than 1 day's spraying down to breakdown and that includes an incident when a RTA ripped a boom completely of a machine at 1 o'clock on a friday afternoon yet we were in the field spraying again by 9am the next day ! Not a bad record given they are nearly 200 miles away from us I guess

    Any self prop has running costs, they are not cheap machines to buy or run but the cover a lot of work so end up pretty reasonable per ac over their lifetimes

    The things you should consider when buying a sprayer are

    Weight
    Weight distribution
    How much rubber you can put under that weight
    boom quality and ride
    Back up and service
    Resale value when your done with it
    and then everything else

    the problem with the idea that these big machines don't have to be filled is that they are built to carry that weight so in many cases have vast weights before you put any water in the tank

    trailed units are great in principle but a pain in the field - many big ones are more than 12m long inc the tractor .........so how does that work when you get to an headland ? drive through the headland tramline, stop, back-up then turn and bang goes your work rate ! I a wet spring like we have just had a trailed sprayer would have had no chance on much of our land and would have made a right mess when it was finally able to travel

    I had a trailed machine once upon a time and would never go back there once you have used an self prop machine. most larger farms can run a self prop for circa 2/ac or less, does something so important really need to be costed to the last penny when delayed applications can cost tens of thousands ?

  20. #20
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Does anyone run any of those big SP sprayers that have mechanical drive IE full powershift? No one ever seems to mention them, is there a reason?

  21. #21
    jonnieboy
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    maybe going a bit far !!
    Although it may suit one of our more larger members eh SRB

  22. #22
    farmersteve
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayo View Post
    Does anyone run any of those big SP sprayers that have mechanical drive IE full powershift? No one ever seems to mention them, is there a reason?
    Know of a local contractor that run 2 Multidrives 6185 or 6195. A lot quicker on the road than hydro drive if have to travel a fair way. 1 gets used for corn carting and rolling over summer.

  23. #23
    Steevo
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by devils advocate View Post
    Looks like the EZ-Steer needs calibrating!

  24. #24
    Bumble Bee
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayo View Post
    Does anyone run any of those big SP sprayers that have mechanical drive IE full powershift? No one ever seems to mention them, is there a reason?
    We run a Multidrive with 4000l tank When full of fert it weighs as much as a 5000l tank. It will travel better in the wet than conventional hydrostatics. This is mainly due to the wheels having a much greater rolling radius. Also better on hills as it has full 4WD and there is not as much power loss as hydro's.
    The only down side is that you cannot vary the trac width on the go.
    As mentioned above, they are also more suited to long distance road travel. Have also used ours for rolling in the past.

  25. #25
    Jon
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by banana bar View Post
    Running 2 Batemans at the moment that will both need replacing over the next 18mth - 2yrs. Narrowed it down to Sands or stick with Bateman. 32m 4000lt. Would wecome views on both options please.

    BB
    Same situation but 3000 lit/24m. My thoughts:

    Mechanical 4ws on Bateman a big positive. Electric systems often seem to cause issues
    Joystick control looks better on sands, but rest of cab better on Bateman
    In 24m trim sands boom looks more robust but at 32m you're in VG territory which looks a good strong boom. I thought the sands booms rode marginally better at cereals
    Stainless steel tank on Bateman but sands tanks have 10 year warranty
    Bit unsure of the pneumatic control system on sands
    I believe with a VG boom the Bateman will be a little dearer
    Bateman residuals probably a little stronger now but that could easily change in 5-10 years
    Bateman backup is renowned but I am led to believe sands do a very good job too.
    When farmers replace Bateman or sands sprayers they do seem to stick with the same brand which is obviously a good sign

    There is so little to choose between them that I think I'll give my sprayman the choice. Either way I'm confident I'll have a good reliable machine that my operator is happy driving.

  26. #26
    Jon
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Proper Job View Post
    Bateman maybe dated but they are simple and easy to fix if they do go wrong, and with such excellent back up any major downtime is rarely a problem hence why the secondhand machines have such strong residuals. When you watch the demos at cereals no other boom rides as well as the Bateman VG, so dated yes but if it ain't broke..........
    Whilst the VG rode well I thought the 36m chafer trailed machine was more impressive. I didn't see another operator confident enough to run the boom as close to the crop and it ran dead level.

  27. #27
    BANTER
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    No offence intended NameTab, just constructive criticism, I also have to agree that the Bateman sprayer needs some modernisation to stay in the game, certainly not the clear favourite any more.

    It might have gone un-noticed to some at cereals but it appears Househam are now fitting Sauer opposed to Poclain wheel motors on the 4000L + and I would imagine smaller machines as well in the future / optional extra.

    A large number of Bateman Sprayers have in recent years been fitted with Poclain MW wheel motors (50kph) opposed to the MS wheel motors (40kph) fitted by Househam and Sands which do not suffer anywhere near as many reliability issues.

    Leeb have been building sprayers a long time, but last year made a link with Horsch to increase their market into other countries with a known brand and established dealer connections.

  28. #28
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    our previous Rb16 was no more or less trouble at the same age as the current rb35, it had a couple of wheel motors over its 5500hrs 6 year life with us as well. If we did less road work I suspect this would be less of an issue

    neither of them have been any less unreliable than I would expect of a 5000hr machine and both have been cheap spraying given the workload they cover

    Quite honestly there is not much fundamental difference between the older Batemans and newer ones - mostly just thing a like a nicer, bigger cab and larger tank options, the basic steering design and booms are very old tried and tested designs now, JD engines and Polclain wheel motors been used for at least 10 years now ??

    it's all retaliative, machines don't break when they are not working, The Rb35 has had nothing extraordinary happen to it this season, a new return to tank valve, a replacement wheel motor a small oil leak and some new rear bushes, hardly bad give that it has probably covered 15,000ac of work this spring and is 5 years old now. All these things are annoying when your behind with work due to weather etc but non of them took longer than 24hrs to get sorted thanks to good back-up

    I wish any of the machines we ran before Batemans were half as good and reliable, I had Chafers, Amazones and Agribuggies that were dropping apart on half the ac and a fraction of the hours, I have a long memory and recall how frustrating such machines often where especially when there was no back up to help get them going again when they did let you down

    Non hydro self props tend to lack ground clearance and are usually heavier machine, they also cost big bucks to repair when they break, there are a lot more mechanical components to potential go wrong and wear

    The 12k repairs that you mention - if that machine is covering a proper self prop workload of say 20,000ac a year then I wouldn't worry about it, it's still only 60p / ac in R&M !! wish I could run a tractor at a that price !

    Your old Chaviot might have cost noting but it was only doing a couple hundred ac a year - machines never break when they aren't being used, it's easy to forget just how much work some of these machines are doing so is it any wonder they can generate nasty bills sometimes

  29. #29
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Not really it was doing 9000-11,000ac per year with 12,000hrs on the clock. Very reliable machine but not the nicest to drive admittedly.
    didn't realise you were contracting with it back then

    why not run one now if they are so cheap then ? surely a modern cab cold be thrown at one for not a lot of

  30. #30
    AFX9010
    Guest

    Re: New Sprayer Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    our previous Rb16 was no more or less trouble at the same age as the current rb35, it had a couple of wheel motors over its 5500hrs 6 year life with us as well. If we did less road work I suspect this would be less of an issue

    neither of them have been any less unreliable than I would expect of a 5000hr machine and both have been cheap spraying given the workload they cover

    Quite honestly there is not much fundamental difference between the older Batemans and newer ones - mostly just thing a like a nicer, bigger cab and larger tank options, the basic steering design and booms are very old tried and tested designs now, JD engines and Polclain wheel motors been used for at least 10 years now ??

    it's all retaliative, machines don't break when they are not working, The Rb35 has had nothing extraordinary happen to it this season, a new return to tank valve, a replacement wheel motor a small oil leak and some new rear bushes, hardly bad give that it has probably covered 15,000ac of work this spring and is 5 years old now. All these things are annoying when your behind with work due to weather etc but non of them took longer than 24hrs to get sorted thanks to good back-up

    I wish any of the machines we ran before Batemans were half as good and reliable, I had Chafers, Amazones and Agribuggies that were dropping apart on half the ac and a fraction of the hours, I have a long memory and recall how frustrating such machines often where especially when there was no back up to help get them going again when they did let you down

    Non hydro self props tend to lack ground clearance and are usually heavier machine, they also cost big bucks to repair when they break, there are a lot more mechanical components to potential go wrong and wear

    The 12k repairs that you mention - if that machine is covering a proper self prop workload of say 20,000ac a year then I wouldn't worry about it, it's still only 60p / ac in R&M !! wish I could run a tractor at a that price !

    Your old Chaviot might have cost noting but it was only doing a couple hundred ac a year - machines never break when they aren't being used, it's easy to forget just how much work some of these machines are doing so is it any wonder they can generate nasty bills sometimes
    Looks like someone is looking for a big discount on there next Bateman me thinks!! no machine or manufacturer is that perfect

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