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Thread: 6 cylinder international proj.

  1. #1
    john8210
    Guest

    6 cylinder international proj.

    ive now bought a back end from a 475 to start this project , i have got the flywheel and adapter plate to fit the massey type bell housing, now i need a bell housing plate for the engine, ive had a 698 plate offered but i think a back plate and sump from massey 3/699 would be better. i have a 6.354 engine in mind for it .anyone got any ideas of breakers who may have such a thing or any suggestions on the 698 back plate. am i right in thinking that all the perkins back plates are fairly interchangable ? does the 698 bell housing go all the way round or is it like the 699, only half and the sump makes up the bottom? any ideas welcome. thanks john

  2. #2
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    ive now bought a back end from a 475 to start this project , i have got the flywheel and adapter plate to fit the massey type bell housing, now i need a bell housing plate for the engine, ive had a 698 plate offered but i think a back plate and sump from massey 3/699 would be better. i have a 6.354 engine in mind for it .anyone got any ideas of breakers who may have such a thing or any suggestions on the 698 back plate. am i right in thinking that all the perkins back plates are fairly interchangable ? does the 698 bell housing go all the way round or is it like the 699, only half and the sump makes up the bottom? any ideas welcome. thanks john
    not sure if i can answer all that you asking but i have a 398 n also 1200, 4.236 n 6.354 engines, both look like similar bellhousings, you could try 07710153603, sorry i dont know his name but breaks masseys, yorkshire i think

  3. #3
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by multi power View Post
    not sure if i can answer all that you asking but i have a 398 n also 1200, 4.236 n 6.354 engines, both look like similar bellhousings, you could try 07710153603, sorry i dont know his name but breaks masseys, yorkshire i think
    cheers for that, forgot about 1200, that housing would prob fit too.

  4. #4
    cowfarm
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    ive now bought a back end from a 475 to start this project , i have got the flywheel and adapter plate to fit the massey type bell housing, now i need a bell housing plate for the engine, ive had a 698 plate offered but i think a back plate and sump from massey 3/699 would be better. i have a 6.354 engine in mind for it .anyone got any ideas of breakers who may have such a thing or any suggestions on the 698 back plate. am i right in thinking that all the perkins back plates are fairly interchangable ? does the 698 bell housing go all the way round or is it like the 699, only half and the sump makes up the bottom? any ideas welcome. thanks john
    I have a 6.354 out of a 699 but I'm going to use it for a similar project (one day) the 698 plate is completely different to the 699,I always thought it looked like a Nash bolt pattern,I mean the 3.182 engined 698.



    ps.what wheels are you using? 42's

  5. #5
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    cheers for that, forgot about 1200, that housing would prob fit too.
    i have a spare bellhousing that came off either a jcb or 1200 i cant remember but i think they both the same

  6. #6
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by cowfarm View Post
    I have a 6.354 out of a 699 but I'm going to use it for a similar project (one day) the 698 plate is completely different to the 699,I always thought it looked like a Nash bolt pattern,I mean the 3.182 engined 698.



    ps.what wheels are you using? 42's
    definatly 42's maybe high speed diff too ! 60mph plus def.
    erh i think you should sell that engine too me

  7. #7
    cowfarm
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    definatly 42's maybe high speed diff too ! 60mph plus def.
    erh i think you should sell that engine too me
    Nah I'm to attached to it. thinking of putting it into my industrial 135.

  8. #8
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    699 is different version to that in 1200 n will be better for your job as water pump n rad lower so bonnet not so high

  9. #9
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by multi power View Post
    i have a spare bellhousing that came off either a jcb or 1200 i cant remember but i think they both the same
    thinking about your 1200 , does the engine not sit on a chassis? ie. not bolted directly to gearbox ?

  10. #10
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    yes chassie but thats because there is a 2 foot gap between engine n gearbox, other wise the engine would have to be maybe a foot higher to clear the front diff, the flywheel is as normal n a shaft n then clutch in front of gearbox like any other massey. still the same holes in casting on the block at front, flywheel end its the bellhousing thats bolted to chassie, if that makes any sence, i can take some photos next day im over at the farm

  11. #11
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    its a long time since ive been that close to a 1200, with that sort of set up it easy to see why quite afew had engine upgrades.

  12. #12
    massey765
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    try pv dobson they have loads of perkins stuff

  13. #13
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by massey765 View Post
    try pv dobson they have loads of perkins stuff
    yeah , im gonna go see em tonight, they do have loads of stuff. rang a few breakers this morn and they said no way would i find a 699 sump and back plate, something will turn up im sure

  14. #14
    cowfarm
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    yeah , im gonna go see em tonight, they do have loads of stuff. rang a few breakers this morn and they said no way would i find a 699 sump and back plate, something will turn up im sure
    That makes mine worth more now!

  15. #15
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    been to dobsons tonight and all they have are back plates from 135 s etc. they do go all the way round . does anyone know if they fit on to the larger perkins engines? the sump would not be a problem as i can soon fabricate a pair of support rails .

  16. #16
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    why do you need to change sump? does the block not take the strength? the 1200 sump is same as combine i think n certinely same as jcb 805b track machine

  17. #17
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    bund to be 699s being broken somewhere, what about 2640/2680 or have they all fell to bits years ago

  18. #18
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by multi power View Post
    bund to be 699s being broken somewhere, what about 2640/2680 or have they all fell to bits years ago
    the block is an unstressed unit, it relies on the sump being sandwiched at the bottom between the axle tombstone and bellhousing to tie it together at the bottom, otherwise it would try to collapse downhill at the bell housing , the 2000 series engines use a different sump i think. i stand to be corrected though. i need to go look at some to get an idea . this weekend i will do some serious homework. however another option would be to put a 1004 series turbo series engine in from a tractor . big money though for anything remotley decent.
    oh , by the way, i rung that number you gave me above, his name was richard hoyland from wakefield, nice fella but no bits for me. it was he who said i would struggle.

  19. #19
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    just found this on you tube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIm6_5RWFc

  20. #20
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Hi erm from memory eddie hothasol from hutton roof way ran 1200s an 165s 290s and converted them to wagon engines and i think ther was a trailed chopper or 2 with the 6 cyl engine on her from the same area mite of been his i cant remember, ro he mite have or no of an engine or spares dont bollock me the name is wrong :lolk:

  21. #21
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    Hi erm from memory eddie hothasol from hutton roof way ran 1200s an 165s 290s and converted them to wagon engines and i think ther was a trailed chopper or 2 with the 6 cyl engine on her from the same area mite of been his i cant remember, ro he mite have or no of an engine or spares dont bollock me the name is wrong :lolk:
    no the name is right, hothersal is near kirby lonsdale somewhere.

  22. #22
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by john8210 View Post
    the block is an unstressed unit, it relies on the sump being sandwiched at the bottom between the axle tombstone and bellhousing to tie it together at the bottom, otherwise it would try to collapse downhill at the bell housing , the 2000 series engines use a different sump i think. i stand to be corrected though. i need to go look at some to get an idea . this weekend i will do some serious homework. however another option would be to put a 1004 series turbo series engine in from a tractor . big money though for anything remotley decent.
    oh , by the way, i rung that number you gave me above, his name was richard hoyland from wakefield, nice fella but no bits for me. it was he who said i would struggle.
    the 1004 may be a better engine in theory, but its not going to sound half as good as a 6354 (i think every tractor should have a 6354)
    blimey these things never are simple, i was always thinking about putting a 6354 in a 100 or maybe 200 series but seems not that simple

  23. #23
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by multi power View Post
    the 1004 may be a better engine in theory, but its not going to sound half as good as a 6354 (i think every tractor should have a 6354)
    blimey these things never are simple, i was always thinking about putting a 6354 in a 100 or maybe 200 series but seems not that simple
    its real simple in theory , but stroll on finding the parts is not easy

  24. #24
    deere2140
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Didn't the 475 come with a Perkins 4212 , same as a 165 ? A 6354 is a 236 with 2 extra cylinders , so the mountings should be the same , I'd have thought . I'm guessing here , but I reckon IH used a different back plate for the engine to fit the 212 into the IH backend , so I'd see if you can get the backplate off a 475 . There is a good chance that the 475 backplate will fit straight on a 6354 .
    If you can do that , and bolt a 475 front support to the front of the engine , then see if you can fit a tin sump ( combine type ) to the 6354 . If it fits ok , then all you then need to do is brace the front support to the backend , using the spare holes from a stresed sump installation as well as side plates from the front support to the gearbox . Does the IH backend have loader or cab supports near the bellhousing?

  25. #25
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by deere2140 View Post
    Didn't the 475 come with a Perkins 4212 , same as a 165 ? A 6354 is a 236 with 2 extra cylinders , so the mountings should be the same , I'd have thought . I'm guessing here , but I reckon IH used a different back plate for the engine to fit the 212 into the IH backend , so I'd see if you can get the backplate off a 475 . There is a good chance that the 475 backplate will fit straight on a 6354 .
    If you can do that , and bolt a 475 front support to the front of the engine , then see if you can fit a tin sump ( combine type ) to the 6354 . If it fits ok , then all you then need to do is brace the front support to the backend , using the spare holes from a stresed sump installation as well as side plates from the front support to the gearbox . Does the IH backend have loader or cab supports near the bellhousing?
    i here what your sayin, unfortunatly its not that simple , the 6354 engine does not have a cast in bell housing like the a4212 engine. all perkins designated tractor engines have the bell housing cast into the block ie. stressed block. the 6354 does not have this, its a similar set up to the 3 cylinder engine, with removable bell housing, thats why i need one from a 3/699. if i could just get a complete circle of a housing i could manage with the tin sump and just fit rails as you say to support it. the front of the nash box has got very good mounting points. thanks for your thoughts

  26. #26
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    ok im just getting my head around this now, all the 6354 engines have a round bellhousing,it bolts to the end of the block, the 236 n 248s have a different type of block, as you say bellhousing cast into block, now im wondering if 399/699 alough 6354 is it a different type of block?
    what about building a sort of a dry sump around existing tin sump?

  27. #27
    deere2140
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Surely not all 4 cylinder Perkins have the flywheel cover ( the bit that the transmission/clutch housing bolts to ) cast in . The Case CX range used 1100 series Perkins , bolted to the old style IH transmission , did they have a bolt on flywheel housing/cover , and would that bolt onto a 6354? I would have thought they would .
    Even my beloved JD's , can be fitted with 4236's or 6354's when assembled in South Africa , they used a bolt on flywheel housing to allow them to connect to the Mannheim transmission .

  28. #28
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    Quote Originally Posted by deere2140 View Post
    Surely not all 4 cylinder Perkins have the flywheel cover ( the bit that the transmission/clutch housing bolts to ) cast in . The Case CX range used 1100 series Perkins , bolted to the old style IH transmission , did they have a bolt on flywheel housing/cover , and would that bolt onto a 6354? I would have thought they would .
    Even my beloved JD's , can be fitted with 4236's or 6354's when assembled in South Africa , they used a bolt on flywheel housing to allow them to connect to the Mannheim transmission .
    the case cx range use a tractor type block with an adapter plate to mate to the nash back end , heres a cx engine to compare
    http://www.shawsonsupply.com/show.ph...odel=&srt=make
    the industrial perkins engines and 6354 s have an interchangeable plate
    http://www.shawsonsupply.com/show.ph...odel=&srt=make
    the tractor spec engines have the standard massey fitting cast into the block
    http://www.shawsonsupply.com/show.ph...odel=&srt=make
    i havnt got a picture of what i need but i hope that helps

  29. #29
    multi power
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    i took some photos tonight of 1200, jcb digger n spare engine showing bolt on bellhousing, i will ask nice tomorrow for other half to put the photos on computer

  30. #30
    john8210
    Guest

    Re: 6 cylinder international proj.

    cheers , i looked at a massey 698 last night to see how the bell housing worked on that and it has a strange steel sandwhich plate inbetween. the engine itself is has a cast in bell housing with a different shape again. i wonder if that motor was designed to fit in the 1080 originally and they just kept it the same when put in later tractors.

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