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Thread: international 584 losing oil

  1. #1
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    international 584 losing oil

    hi i have an international 584 that was putting oil out the exhaust, started perfect with no back pressure/engine breathing. it was going through a lot of oil, if the engine was left idleing for a minute and the throttle opened there was a lot of blue smoke from exhaust, i have been told by a few people that it is most likely valve stem oil seals and worn valve guides causing this so have taken the head off to get refurbished, the injectors did not look good either so they will get done too, should i get the piston and liners changed too as i have already got the head off, there is a small lip on the inside of each liner but they dont look too bad, could a bad piston or ring have been causing the smoke,how easy are these liners to do, will i need a press to refit them

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    If there is a noticable lip on the liners,then it would be worth replacing them and the pistons. If the tractor doesn't get much hard work and is ticking over a lot the bores will become glazed. A combination of glazed bores and worn rings etc will let oil up the exhaust. These liners usually can be removed by hammering a piece of good hardwood against them but a liner dolly is much more preferable.Piece of threaded bar through the dolly and wind them up out against the block. Or even easier ,with the use of a hollow hyd ram. Replacing them is easy too. They will tap in with a piece of wood set on top. Just make sure the o ring grooves are spotless on the block.Some say to lube the orings with soap,or oil but personally,I smear them with a film of siligasket and push the liners in.

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    I hesitated to comment but on seeing Agrimax's answer I would 100% agree. You have come this far. It is not difficult to do pistons an liners in situ. Brother and I did an 84 Hydro years ago and it was our first attempt.

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    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    Hi
    Valve stem seals are the obvious cause on these engines but if you've taken the head off now & the liners have even a small lip, then it's probably time for a piston/liner overhaul.
    May as well do up the engine properly, have the valves checked, seats cut, lapped in etc. Your doing the injectors by the sound of it & obviously fit new valve stem seals on rebuild.
    Usual cause is lack of changes or poor quality engine oils.

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    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    PS
    The liners may need a puller but you can often knock them out with a good piece of hardwood.
    The same applies to refitting having made sure you lubricate the liner to help it go in past the o ring.

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    have put the head and injectors to an engineering firm for a complete overhaul, there was a lot of sludge in the water when it was drained also, i have a workshop manual for this but it does not go into much detail, will get the sump off and see how it goes, thanks for the help

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    ok cheers guys will get the sump off and see how it goes, water was full of sludge when i drained it so good chance liners are corroded anyway

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    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    Hi
    Your welcome, I'll just add...
    If you are overhauling the engine fully & it sounds as if you are, please budget for a new oil pump.

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    have been discussing this with as many people as possible and a couple have said to just take pistons out and replace the rings and deglaze the bores, they say the liners should be fine for a few more hours as the engine is not breathing, does this seem like a good idea? someone else suggested to leave pistons alone put head back on and work the tractor hard for a few hours and this should cure it not so sure on this idea though
    Last edited by Footsfitter; 21-04-18 at 10:22 PM.

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    Re: international 584 losing oil

    Quote Originally Posted by aleary View Post
    have been discussing this with as many people as possible and a couple have said to just take pistons out and replace the rings and deglaze the bores, they say the liners should be fine for a few more hours as the engine is not breathing, does this seem like a good idea? someone else suggested to leave pistons alone put head back on and work the tractor hard for a few hours and this should cure it not so sure on this idea though


    Traditionally because of the wear ridge you either need "ridge dodger rings" which were stepped so they didn't catch the wear ridge in the bore as the piston came over TDC which could smash the top ring, or a standard ring together with a ridge cutting tool- think lathe tool bit held in a machined circular plated which you carefully use to trim the step off of the wear lip.

    You could try the hard workout routine but if it didn't cure it then your into your second set of gaskets and labour, you could always try the old boys clean out- warm it up and remove the air filters so you can run it at a fair chatt, cut off the lid of a tin of Ajax or Vim scouring powder and shake/toss into the air intake. They used to swear by it!!

    It also depends the condition of the rest of the engine- look at that and then weigh up based on what has to be done overall.
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