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Thread: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

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    Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    I have run many Haybobs over the years but have just rescued an older one from the nettles ! I have a problem insofar as one of the depth wheel stalks is seized. I have extracted the handle at the top and also the insert. Some Neanderthal has even smacked it with a sledge to try and move it.

    My question is how do I dismantle the whole thing ? Is it just a case of undoing the large nut on top of the crownwheel housing and everything, including the rotor, drops out, or do I undo the studs that are underneath the rotor ? Or both ? I do have a spares book and can see what's inside but just not sure how to proceed. Thanks for any help given.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    It is supposed to just drop out when the pin at the top is removed. A tap with a sledgehammer will have swollen the end so that it will not fit down the hole anymore.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Penetrating oil.......never hit it on the end........big Stilson or pipe grips below the housing and twist. + time.
    Suppose you could take the wheel off and weld attach a long bar below the housing to apply even more force.
    No knowledge of the internals.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    It is supposed to just drop out when the pin at the top is removed. A tap with a sledgehammer will have swollen the end so that it will not fit down the hole anymore.
    Thanks for that. I have been advised not to allow the whole lot to drop out. That upsets the timing, backlash etc. of the crownwheel and pinion. I have ground the top of the stalk so the swollen part has now gone and I have loosened the big nut but I don't really want to take the whole lot apart, all I want to do is to free the stalk so that I can adjust the height of the wheel.

    I have been copiously dowsing the area between the stalk and it's sleeve with WD40 and I have been advised to turn the thing upside down and do it from the underneath as well.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Penetrating oil.......never hit it on the end........big Stilson or pipe grips below the housing and twist. + time.
    Suppose you could take the wheel off and weld attach a long bar below the housing to apply even more force.
    No knowledge of the internals.
    Thank you. Yes, going to de-tine it today because most of the PZ99 & PZ100 springs are shot and then turn it upside down and then WD40 underneath for a few days.

    I have a large set of Stilsons that I can use (with a length of pipe if necessary ) but I hadn't thought about welding a length of something on to the stalk. I'll see how it goes and report back.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Thanks for that. I have been advised not to allow the whole lot to drop out. That upsets the timing, backlash etc. of the crownwheel and pinion. I have ground the top of the stalk so the swollen part has now gone and I have loosened the big nut but I don't really want to take the whole lot apart, all I want to do is to free the stalk so that I can adjust the height of the wheel.

    I have been copiously dowsing the area between the stalk and it's sleeve with WD40 and I have been advised to turn the thing upside down and do it from the underneath as well.
    I find Balistol (made in Germany) much better than WD40; less volotile & a better lubricant. I've heard that the best penetrant is a mix of ATF and acetone; no experience of tho'.

    I'm guessing that the real problem will be accumulated rust jamming the two parts and if so rotating back & forth might be the best way to loosen it, break up the rust particles and perhaps let the stalk drop out - but I reckon you'll need a long handle on the stillson. What about slipping a piece of pipe over the stub axle and using that as a lever?

    Some heat on the stalk probably wouldn't hurt.

    JV
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Thanks John. Well, I turned it upside down after de-tining it. No two bolts the same on the tines so that was a gas axe job I did just put a big pair of Stilson on the stalk and a length of 2" water pipe on the end of those and I thought that I'd shifted it but it was the sleeve as well as the stalk that moved. So now I have to anchor the sleeve and I think I know how to do that because there is a boss on the bottom of it which I can utilise. Trouble is, there's quite a large bearing in close proximity to the boss so I will not have to get carried away. You can probbaly guess what the plan is.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Thanks John. Well, I turned it upside down after de-tining it. No two bolts the same on the tines so that was a gas axe job I did just put a big pair of Stilson on the stalk and a length of 2" water pipe on the end of those and I thought that I'd shifted it but it was the sleeve as well as the stalk that moved. So now I have to anchor the sleeve and I think I know how to do that because there is a boss on the bottom of it which I can utilise. Trouble is, there's quite a large bearing in close proximity to the boss so I will not have to get carried away. You can probbaly guess what the plan is.
    Sorry, my brain is on slow speed today; no idea what your plan is .

    Looked at my machine today, and there is certainly a risk of the tines clashing if the timing is incorrect, but I think there must be a fair bit of latitude. Similarly, although I haven't seen inside the gearbox, I'd have thought getting backlash correct would not be a huge problem.

    Considering those points, I'd be inclined to undo the big nut & drop the lot. Then maybe you could get some heat on the tube, coz I reckon you'll need it

    JV
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    I'm not going to release details of my "cunning plan" unless and until it works. If it doesn't then I can deny all knowledge of it. I will take some piccies when I am about to commence but first I think I need to keep it doused in WD40 for a few days just to give it the benefit of the doubt. I don't have any other penetrating fluid so that will have to do.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    I'm not going to release details of my "cunning plan" unless and until it works. If it doesn't then I can deny all knowledge of it. I will take some piccies when I am about to commence but first I think I need to keep it doused in WD40 for a few days just to give it the benefit of the doubt. I don't have any other penetrating fluid so that will have to do.
    Do you have access to dry ice? quick dose on the shaft to shrink it before your final removal?

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Do you have access to dry ice? quick dose on the shaft to shrink it before your final removal?
    Unfortunately not. And no experience of using that but it sounds interesting.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Unfortunately not. And no experience of using that but it sounds interesting.
    I haven't used it myself either but I have heard of people using it to shrink sleeves before installing them

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    I haven't used it myself either but I have heard of people using it to shrink sleeves before installing them
    I have put shafts in the freezer before now when it was possible to enable fitting of bearings.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?


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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Thanks for that but I'm not sure that a coolant like that would work in my situation. It's impossible to get at the bit that would want cooling down. And the sleevt is about 1foot(-ish) long and it would mean that you would have to cool the the stalk for that length as well. I reckon you would want quite a few cans of that stuff to even have a chance of it working. I can see the attraction of that stuff in certain situations though.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Thanks for that but I'm not sure that a coolant like that would work in my situation. It's impossible to get at the bit that would want cooling down. And the sleevt is about 1foot(-ish) long and it would mean that you would have to cool the the stalk for that length as well. I reckon you would want quite a few cans of that stuff to even have a chance of it working. I can see the attraction of that stuff in certain situations though.
    I wondered about canned freezer too, but I agree with zaza about the problem of getting it to where it's needed.

    I'm in the "drop it out and heat it" camp.

    JV
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Just to clarify the situation. Item 17, the stalk, is seized up inside the sleeve, item 24/15 (it's got 2 numbers because they can be LH or RH thread, depending on which side of the machine they are on). And in turn, item 24/15 is stuffed right up inside item 14, the hub. While going through the hub it also goes through two bearings, a distance piece, and some shims.

    There is a bit of thread sticking out of the top where the large nut, item 25/1 fits, and the boss at the bottom end of the sleeve is just visble.
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Just to clarify the situation. Item 17, the stalk, is seized up inside the sleeve, item 24/15 (it's got 2 numbers because they can be LH or RH thread, depending on which side of the machine they are on). And in turn, item 24/15 is stuffed right up inside item 14, the hub. While going through the hub it also goes through two bearings, a distance piece, and some shims.

    There is a bit of thread sticking out of the top where the large nut, item 25/1 fits, and the boss at the bottom end of the sleeve is just visble.

    I presume 24/15 is not seized inside anything? If it can be removed complete with the stalk by undoing the big nut, I'd do that. provides access for heat

    JV
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by john maddock View Post
    I presume 24/15 is not seized inside anything? If it can be removed complete with the stalk by undoing the big nut, I'd do that. provides access for heat

    JV
    No, I actually turned that a little when I had the stilsons on the stalk. But I've been advised not to take the sleeve and the stalk out as one if it is possible to get the stalk to turn within the sleeve. Of course I may have to if I don't win with my cunning plan but if I do that then I've got more hassle with shims & timing. I accept that the timing may not be much of a problem but I'm taking the easy option, as I see it, first. Of course you are correct insofar as if I did take the lot apart then I could heat the sleeve up and it would make freeing the stalk easier.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    The start of the cunning plan. I made a yoke that fits round the boss of the sleeve. I intend to weld it to the boss. The other end of the yoke is trapped against a crowbar that goes through the brackets that hold the gate on. When it's all welded up I will then get to work with the stilsons and the length of 2" water pipe ! I can lift the crowbar and place the yoke on the other side of it so that I can work the stilsons first one way and then the other. Wish me luck.
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    If it's going to be a while before you need it you could use another trick that takes time. Put it indoors and use putty or similar to attach a tube like part of lemonade bottle over to top then fill it with coke and leave it.

    After some time the coke will dissolve the rust and restore the clearances. A speedier option is to use concentrated phosphoric acid which is the part of the coke that does the business. The problem with rusting metal is that it expands and eliminates running clearance, dissolving the rust into the coke solution restores the clearance. I should think heating the shaft to about 80 degrees a couple of times a day would speed things up but not so hot as to boil of damage the coke. Acetic acid will work but more slowly.

    https://mistralni.co.uk/products/phosphoric-acid-75

    Expensive and possibly rather dangerous stuff though.

    Molasses method:

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=removi...99DB72E535673A

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...7719&FORM=VIRE

    Dunno if "metal rescue" is available in the uk but ut seems to work fast.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D&&FORM=VDRVRV



    If it's raining as hard over there you'll have plenty of time to await it freeing.it someone has swollen the top of it you may need to free it by going up the way then sanding the shaft to restore the running clearance. Patience and dissolving the rust is the way to go rather than brute force which could twist it and gall the surfaces.

    Once freed_Park not at the back of the hedge.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    The start of the cunning plan. I made a yoke that fits round the boss of the sleeve. I intend to weld it to the boss. The other end of the yoke is trapped against a crowbar that goes through the brackets that hold the gate on. When it's all welded up I will then get to work with the stilsons and the length of 2" water pipe ! I can lift the crowbar and place the yoke on the other side of it so that I can work the stilsons first one way and then the other. Wish me luck.
    Good luck
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by T P View Post
    If it's going to be a while before you need it you could use another trick that takes time. Put it indoors and use putty or similar to attach a tube like part of lemonade bottle over to top then fill it with coke and leave it.

    After some time the coke will dissolve the rust and restore the clearances. A speedier option is to use concentrated phosphoric acid which is the part of the coke that does the business. The problem with rusting metal is that it expands and eliminates running clearance, dissolving the rust into the coke solution restores the clearance. I should think heating the shaft to about 80 degrees a couple of times a day would speed things up but not so hot as to boil of damage the coke. Acetic acid will work but more slowly.

    https://mistralni.co.uk/products/phosphoric-acid-75

    Expensive and possibly rather dangerous stuff though.

    Molasses method:

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=removi...99DB72E535673A

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...7719&FORM=VIRE


    If it's raining as hard over there you'll have plenty of time to await it freeing.it someone has swollen the top of it you may need to free it by going up the way then sanding the shaft to restore the running clearance. Patience and dissolving the rust is the way to go rather than brute force which could twist it and gall the surfaces.

    Once freed_Park not at the back of the hedge.
    I agree with TP's approach as an alternative. Providing clearance is key.
    I've heard of both Coke and molasses use, but never tried it.

    JV
    Agtronix - the home of the Weedswiper

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Never used this stuff but it has potential to free it pretty quick according to the video.

    https://www.metalrescue.co.uk/

    https://www.metalrescue.co.uk/Products

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by T P View Post
    If it's going to be a while before you need it you could use another trick that takes time. Put it indoors and use putty or similar to attach a tube like part of lemonade bottle over to top then fill it with coke and leave it.

    After some time the coke will dissolve the rust and restore the clearances. A speedier option is to use concentrated phosphoric acid which is the part of the coke that does the business. The problem with rusting metal is that it expands and eliminates running clearance, dissolving the rust into the coke solution restores the clearance. I should think heating the shaft to about 80 degrees a couple of times a day would speed things up but not so hot as to boil of damage the coke. Acetic acid will work but more slowly.
    Once freed_Park not at the back of the hedge.
    Thanks. I'll see how I get on with the yoke first but I like the idea of allowing a slow dribble of coke to attack the rust but the stalk is cranked and I wouldn't be able to get a lemonade bottle over the crank down as far as the boss but I'n sure that there is a way round that little obstacle.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Thanks. I'll see how I get on with the yoke first but I like the idea of allowing a slow dribble of coke to attack the rust but the stalk is cranked and I wouldn't be able to get a lemonade bottle over the crank down as far as the boss but I'n sure that there is a way round that little obstacle.
    A dam of silicon compound, built up a layer at a time (allowing for curing of each layer)? Small dam = frequent topping up. (No tipples of the excess Coke following each dam replenishment permitted).

    JV
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by john maddock View Post
    A dam of silicon compound, built up a layer at a time (allowing for curing of each layer)? Small dam = frequent topping up. (No tipples of the excess Coke following each dam replenishment permitted).

    JV
    Yes, I had thought about something like that. But I'm getting impatient now (one of my many faults) so if I have time today I'll attach the yoke and see how it goes. No need to worry about tipples of the liquid coke, can't stand the stuff. As far as the hard drug is concerned I have never even seen that stuff.

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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Found these in the workshop today. Are either of them any better than WD40 for rust penetration/removal ? The Jenolite contains phosphoric acid but don't know about Auto 4 penetrating oil.
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Found these in the workshop today. Are either of them any better than WD40 for rust penetration/removal ? The Jenolite contains phosphoric acid but don't know about Auto 4 penetrating oil.
    I don't either. I'd go with the genuine article - both versions! Never know your luck.
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    Re: Could anybody help with a Haybob please ?

    Well, first of all my cunning plan wasn't cunning enough. After a few days of soaking and then welding the yoke on still nothing would budge. The first image below was my crude attempt to contain the anti-rust liquid. I then decide to initiate plan B. I rested the digger bucket on the haybob and jacked the wheel stalk, rotor, etc. out of the machine. Then I rested the rotor up in the air on some blocks and persuaded the stalk c/w sleeve that it really woudl be better if it came apart sensibly !

    I now have the stalk and sleeve in the workshop. I have removed the bearing and the insert. Tomorrow I cut the yoke off that I assiduously welded on to the stalk earler and then get some heat around the thing.

    Two questions if I may.

    1. The wheel stalk has a crank in it as can be seen so that the wheel can either lean backwards or forwards when assembled. I seem to remember that they were like this when new. Am I correct ?

    2. I also seem to remember that the wheels were a pig to remove. We took ours off all those years ago to fit sensible tyres. I can't see any circlips or anything and I think it just brute force and ignorance to remove them unless anyone has a better idea ?
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