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Thread: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

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    Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Anybody else had issues with Kerosene for AGA etc cookers. I know they changed the sulphur a few years ago and since a very bad couple of weeks of cleaning horrible carbon deposits I have always had fuel additive ever since. I started with adding Aderco 5000 (think name correct) on my own to straight Kerosene but have had a few deliveries where they supply the additive usually Exonell (I think ) cooker additive.

    I have had no problems and in fact have noticed that everything has burned clean ever since. The only time had to service it was a coke up in the bottom fuel chamber that cut down the fuel supply and that was about 2 years after last. Basically very happy.

    Anyway got a delivery a couple of weeks back and they sent different stuff, no additive to pour in it was already added EXocet +. Two days later the aga started popping and following evening was woke at 4am with whole house smelling of fuel. Had to turn it off and then horrible job of cleaning the next day. I rang the firm up to ask what they had delivered and very non committal in answer. I had quizzed the driver about not tipping in any additive but was assured all ok. Anyway after about 4 hours cleaning and yes it really does take that long, compressed air to blast all parts once removed, hoover to clean in chambers. It was relit and all seemed ok, however after about 3 hours flame turned yellow and started sooting up again. Turned it off again put my own additive in tank, cleaned again and relit.

    Again though after a few hours same thing though not quite as bad, so wondering if additives not compatible with each other. Got a fresh barrel of fuel from different supplier and rigged up a temporary supply bypassing tank, put my own additive in and relit again. However again it started doing same thing after about 3 hours lit. Confused by all this I experimented by putting it on low fire by turning off the thermostat and flame went blue again and popping stopped. Left it for a bit, flipped over the manual lever and nearly immediately started yellow flame. So back on low fire and slept on it for a think.

    Got to the conclusion that was over fuelling for some reason, so experimented yesterday by reducing the high fire rate and after a bit of trial and error seem to have it sussed so maximum fuel at high fire while still burning clean. Been on with thermostat on for 24 hours now, at temp, burning clean. Got to decide when to risk putting back on the main tank to see if that fuel is actually ok but leaving a little bit yet as want some tea that not been in a microwave.

    Come to the conclusion that since the previous delivery 18 month back the viscosity of the kerosene must have been changed, i.e they have made it thinner so if flows faster. Can be the only conclusion as was lit when new delivery arrived and working fine. I have had to reduce the fuel supply at high fire and now seems ok.

    Has anybody else experience this or a similar issue recently and what did they do to sort it out?
    Andy

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Anybody else had issues with Kerosene for AGA etc cookers. I know they changed the sulphur a few years ago and since a very bad couple of weeks of cleaning horrible carbon deposits I have always had fuel additive ever since. I started with adding Aderco 5000 (think name correct) on my own to straight Kerosene but have had a few deliveries where they supply the additive usually Exonell (I think ) cooker additive.

    I have had no problems and in fact have noticed that everything has burned clean ever since. The only time had to service it was a coke up in the bottom fuel chamber that cut down the fuel supply and that was about 2 years after last. Basically very happy.

    Anyway got a delivery a couple of weeks back and they sent different stuff, no additive to pour in it was already added EXocet +. Two days later the aga started popping and following evening was woke at 4am with whole house smelling of fuel. Had to turn it off and then horrible job of cleaning the next day. I rang the firm up to ask what they had delivered and very non committal in answer. I had quizzed the driver about not tipping in any additive but was assured all ok. Anyway after about 4 hours cleaning and yes it really does take that long, compressed air to blast all parts once removed, hoover to clean in chambers. It was relit and all seemed ok, however after about 3 hours flame turned yellow and started sooting up again. Turned it off again put my own additive in tank, cleaned again and relit.

    Again though after a few hours same thing though not quite as bad, so wondering if additives not compatible with each other. Got a fresh barrel of fuel from different supplier and rigged up a temporary supply bypassing tank, put my own additive in and relit again. However again it started doing same thing after about 3 hours lit. Confused by all this I experimented by putting it on low fire by turning off the thermostat and flame went blue again and popping stopped. Left it for a bit, flipped over the manual lever and nearly immediately started yellow flame. So back on low fire and slept on it for a think.

    Got to the conclusion that was over fuelling for some reason, so experimented yesterday by reducing the high fire rate and after a bit of trial and error seem to have it sussed so maximum fuel at high fire while still burning clean. Been on with thermostat on for 24 hours now, at temp, burning clean. Got to decide when to risk putting back on the main tank to see if that fuel is actually ok but leaving a little bit yet as want some tea that not been in a microwave.

    Come to the conclusion that since the previous delivery 18 month back the viscosity of the kerosene must have been changed, i.e they have made it thinner so if flows faster. Can be the only conclusion as was lit when new delivery arrived and working fine. I have had to reduce the fuel supply at high fire and now seems ok.

    Has anybody else experience this or a similar issue recently and what did they do to sort it out?
    Andy
    for a start is it AGA or Rayburn , they have completely different system.
    when was it last serviced?
    if as I suspect a jet fire then I would strongly suspect it needs a service urgently
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    for a start is it AGA or Rayburn , they have completely different system.
    when was it last serviced?
    if as I suspect a jet fire then I would strongly suspect it needs a service urgently
    Yes, sounds more like a proper jet burner conversion. The wick conversion type they had put in the farmhouse here is much simpler. It just suffers from the biofuel they add to current heating oil making decokes needed every 8-12 weeks now when the norm used to be twice yearly.
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Yes, sounds more like a proper jet burner conversion. The wick conversion type they had put in the farmhouse here is much simpler. It just suffers from the biofuel they add to current heating oil making decokes needed every 8-12 weeks now when the norm used to be twice yearly.
    I don't think there is any bio fuel in home heating oil.
    The suppliers cannot source sufficient for their commitment to road fuels.
    When we were running an Aga it frequently had issues unless we went for the super premium kerosene, costing half as much again as the regular.
    Much as I loved the Aga , I don't miss it, especially in the summer.
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Its an AGA, not a conversion, bought new when built the house many years ago. Didn't know Rayburns different system never experienced but thought they the same.
    Anyway not needed servicing for ages, always do it myself its not rocket science and can get wicks etc online only problem has been the usual coke up in the fuel chamber after 12 plus months which doesn't take long to sort but you have to put it out to do it.

    I have experienced the total soot up twice, once prior to using additive and now when having changed nothing apart from new fuel delivery it happened. Having gone through all the other possibilities have come to the conclusion that the fuel must be less viscous than the previous delivery 18 months back and the ones for the previous 3 years before that.

    Have turned down the high fire flow rate, so at temp with no kerosene smell at high fire or orange flame, just efficient blue flame and clean burn.
    Just need to pluck up courage and reconnect the oil tank again and do away with my temporary barrel supply and see what happens.

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Its an AGA, not a conversion, bought new when built the house many years ago. Didn't know Rayburns different system never experienced but thought they the same.
    Anyway not needed servicing for ages, always do it myself its not rocket science and can get wicks etc online only problem has been the usual coke up in the fuel chamber after 12 plus months which doesn't take long to sort but you have to put it out to do it.

    I have experienced the total soot up twice, once prior to using additive and now when having changed nothing apart from new fuel delivery it happened. Having gone through all the other possibilities have come to the conclusion that the fuel must be less viscous than the previous delivery 18 months back and the ones for the previous 3 years before that.

    Have turned down the high fire flow rate, so at temp with no kerosene smell at high fire or orange flame, just efficient blue flame and clean burn.
    Just need to pluck up courage and reconnect the oil tank again and do away with my temporary barrel supply and see what happens.

    Hmmm, your aga sounds very different to the one I "service" here. Not sure of its history as the builders put it in 20+ yrs ago, its been converted to oil at some time. Its an Aga deluxe 1956-74 according to this site- http://www.agafixspares.com/html/hel...fy_my_aga.html it still has the air control dial but its never worked, the only heat control is the OCI oil control valve which regulates the gravity fed fuel into the wick burner which is where the gumming/carboning up occurs, it makes a small volcano type mound around the place where the oil trickles into the cast wick holder.

    I have nothing to do with ordering the fuel, but since it has had this extra whatever it is added back 3-4 years ago it cokes up relentlessly and those who rely on having the Aga specialists round to keep them going are finding it hard to justify keeping their oil fired aga- many have been ripped out.
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Hmmm, your aga sounds very different to the one I "service" here. Not sure of its history as the builders put it in 20+ yrs ago, its been converted to oil at some time. Its an Aga deluxe 1956-74 according to this site- http://www.agafixspares.com/html/hel...fy_my_aga.html it still has the air control dial but its never worked, the only heat control is the OCI oil control valve which regulates the gravity fed fuel into the wick burner which is where the gumming/carboning up occurs, it makes a small volcano type mound around the place where the oil trickles into the cast wick holder.

    I have nothing to do with ordering the fuel, but since it has had this extra whatever it is added back 3-4 years ago it cokes up relentlessly and those who rely on having the Aga specialists round to keep them going are finding it hard to justify keeping their oil fired aga- many have been ripped out.
    Yes gravity fuel via a little box on side with a reset lever and a manual control. Goes into the wick burner but the wick only actually burns the oil when its being relit once shells get hot the oil vaporises when it enters the holder and then burns up the shells.

    It does carbonise in the middle of the "wick holder" every once in a while but as before not been a problem at all with additive in goes round to once a year if that and then you only notice that it needs doing because wont get up to temp, probably because not enough fuel getting through.

    If yours is coking up you want to try the cooker additives mentioned in first post Aderco 5000 or Exonel the two I have tried and both ok. Can just add to regular Kerosene or the stuff they have changed it to and in my experience works absolutely fine and eliminates coking problems unless you got the problem I have which it turns out is the high fire fuel control. This is altered on the little box on the side via a slotted screw that you turn to raise or lower the fuel at high fire. If you have a flame that burns yellow when it on high fire this is where the problem is, should be as much fuel as possible whilst still burning totally blue.

    This is the crux of my problem in that it was set perfect until the new delivery which must mean its flowing faster i.e its thinner stuff and given me all sorts of grief.
    Oil AGA is spot on if the fuel is right, that is where the problems have been.

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    I seem to remember we did have issues once with something that sounds similar . it is though near 30 years ago, I am certain they replaced the box on the side
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    I seem to remember we did have issues once with something that sounds similar . it is though near 30 years ago, I am certain they replaced the box on the side
    All of a sudden I am glad that I went for a LPG model over 30 years ago now. I went for that as I had an OPICO grain drier at the time. It has proved very reliable over the years although not cheap to run.

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    I don't think there is any bio fuel in home heating oil.
    The suppliers cannot source sufficient for their commitment to road fuels.
    When we were running an Aga it frequently had issues unless we went for the super premium kerosene, costing half as much again as the regular.
    Much as I loved the Aga , I don't miss it, especially in the summer.
    Just for the record, the calorific value of red diesel is much better than kerosene,
    jack caley

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Just for the record, the calorific value of red diesel is much better than kerosene,
    jack caley
    ? But an AGA definitely wont run on red diesel that would coke it up!

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Yes gravity fuel via a little box on side with a reset lever and a manual control. Goes into the wick burner but the wick only actually burns the oil when its being relit once shells get hot the oil vaporises when it enters the holder and then burns up the shells.

    It does carbonise in the middle of the "wick holder" every once in a while but as before not been a problem at all with additive in goes round to once a year if that and then you only notice that it needs doing because wont get up to temp, probably because not enough fuel getting through.

    If yours is coking up you want to try the cooker additives mentioned in first post Aderco 5000 or Exonel the two I have tried and both ok. Can just add to regular Kerosene or the stuff they have changed it to and in my experience works absolutely fine and eliminates coking problems unless you got the problem I have which it turns out is the high fire fuel control. This is altered on the little box on the side via a slotted screw that you turn to raise or lower the fuel at high fire. If you have a flame that burns yellow when it on high fire this is where the problem is, should be as much fuel as possible whilst still burning totally blue.

    This is the crux of my problem in that it was set perfect until the new delivery which must mean its flowing faster i.e its thinner stuff and given me all sorts of grief.
    Oil AGA is spot on if the fuel is right, that is where the problems have been.
    Sort of sounds similar. The OCI valve I deal with is oval in shape with the rotary knob and lever to start/stop the oil flow. I've seen what I think you have- oblong in shape IIRC. The Burner wick basket is set up in the old ash box and leveled up then when they install the valve its mounted so that the float inside maintains the level in the basket. (The OCI valve has IIRC a couple of floats, I think the idea is the first one controls oil from the tank to the 2nd float which does the basket so that fluctuations in tank level is isolated from effecting the 2nd float.) Also running off the same tank is the house main boiler so it needs a keen eye on the tank gauge especially if no one remembers to press the reading button

    Interesting about the additive, other than the carbon building up and either blocking the feed fittings or making a volcano type ridge around the outlet in the basket which simply holds back oil in a tiny puddle, both put the fire out but we don't have any of the issues you speak of. Better find out 1st if the additive would be ok for pressure jet boilers?
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Just for the record, the calorific value of red diesel is much better than kerosene,
    jack caley
    Ok jack, so that means I'd put on less weight if I drank Kerro, ................
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Ok jack, so that means I'd put on less weight if I drank Kerro, ................
    I did not know you drank red diesel,
    jack caley

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I did not know you drank red diesel,
    jack caley
    Had the LPG AGA serviced this morning and I casually mentioned the oil problem mentioned here, well, here it is in a nutshell, the sulphur has been removed or drastically lowered in home heating oil and it is a 'complete disaster' according to my AGA man, as soon as you get your cooker serviced, the sulphur less oil begins clogging up the pipes, so there you have it folks.

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
    Had the LPG AGA serviced this morning and I casually mentioned the oil problem mentioned here, well, here it is in a nutshell, the sulphur has been removed or drastically lowered in home heating oil and it is a 'complete disaster' according to my AGA man, as soon as you get your cooker serviced, the sulphur less oil begins clogging up the pipes, so there you have it folks.
    At the time it all started there was quite a bit of uproar from all the luvvies who'd been fashionable at the time having an Aga as the kitchen centrepiece, once they had to have the man in the van more than the normal twice yearly service for oil Aga's they weren't very happy, especially given some of the Aga specalists charge fairly steep rates
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
    Had the LPG AGA serviced this morning and I casually mentioned the oil problem mentioned here, well, here it is in a nutshell, the sulphur has been removed or drastically lowered in home heating oil and it is a 'complete disaster' according to my AGA man, as soon as you get your cooker serviced, the sulphur less oil begins clogging up the pipes, so there you have it folks.
    So is the solution an additive?
    Don't have one here but plenty about locally.

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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
    Had the LPG AGA serviced this morning and I casually mentioned the oil problem mentioned here, well, here it is in a nutshell, the sulphur has been removed or drastically lowered in home heating oil and it is a 'complete disaster' according to my AGA man, as soon as you get your cooker serviced, the sulphur less oil begins clogging up the pipes, so there you have it folks.
    Aga were running perfectly well as were tractors before the Russian high sulphur oil appeared in this country in the late 60's. There was a terrific furore then as to what this high sulphur diesel would do, and many people refused to use it. I think it was only when one company started selling it at a big discount and many people overcame there fear of it. Sulphur of course is a solid in fuel but burns quite well and provided filters are not too fine cause no harm to a Diesel engine however the results of the burn, Sulphur dioxide and trioxide are very acid.
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    Re: Fuel for AGA/Rayburn oil cookers

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
    Had the LPG AGA serviced this morning and I casually mentioned the oil problem mentioned here, well, here it is in a nutshell, the sulphur has been removed or drastically lowered in home heating oil and it is a 'complete disaster' according to my AGA man, as soon as you get your cooker serviced, the sulphur less oil begins clogging up the pipes, so there you have it folks.
    The sulphur was taken out a fair while back and was probably the reason I started using additive as after that the burn was not clean and coked up. So yes I found that for me an additive was the answer to coking up problems, the question I have now is that has something else been changed with kerosene in the recent past, because I took the plunge and reconnected the oil tank and so far it ok. The fuel simply must be thinner and flow faster than the last load 18 months ago. I cant find any other explanation for what has happened to make a running perfectly well AGA choke like it did on a new fuel delivery.

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