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Thread: Euro elections

  1. #31
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    Re: Euro elections

    Maybe I'm getting just too old and too cynical, but I simply cannot see there being anyone else behind all of this other than the bold Boris himself.

    I am crazy?,...........................probably!

    But getting back to my theory, this is the man who has elevated himself to the status of being referred to in first name terms by practically the entire world, and when hounded by the press reacted like this..............................

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r799U_-jAnk

    I personally wouldn't put anything past him.

  2. #32
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    And now dear old Boris is heading for Court.....amusing to think only the other day the press were commenting that Boris had a fair chance of the leadership as long as he kept his mouth shut.
    In the dock at the Old Bailey with a fancy pants QC chewing at his dangly bits should be an interesting event.
    Wonder if his current squeeze will be quite as attentive if he is on holiday at one of “Her Majesties Holiday Homes”.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/brexitjusticeprosecution

    Cheaper than a Netflix sub......and possibly more fun to be had.
    I hope matey who's behind the summons is clean history wise.

    Read a little on the news app this morning and it looks like he's ineligible for "squeaky clean" already, by the time the media have dug up all his and others social media which he thought he'd deleted he could regret starting it. The media will pursue him and boris for any grain of sleaze, have to see who has the better coating of Teflon?
    Did see the media are dissecting the District Judge's track record - This am it was top news on the beeb news website, now its gone right off the screen and needed a search to find it again - maybe the Beeb aren't happy with getting too involved??

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430
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  3. #33
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    Re: Euro elections


  4. #34
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    < snip >
    The media will pursue him and boris for any grain of sleaze,
    < snip >
    Yes, they will publicize anything they can because, in the "new media economy", Clicks on an article generates advertising revenue and controversy creates Clicks

  5. #35
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    Re: Euro elections

    Hmmmm
    The media no longer reports the news..
    The media creates the news.....
    Brexit has been the greatest gift known to the media.............
    Boris runs a close second...........

  6. #36
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  7. #37
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    Re: Euro elections


  8. #38
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    Re: Euro elections

    That wouldn't happen in a real GE, it's obvious they have only done well in the recent EU poll due to tactical voting to try to thwart BXP, same applies to the greens.
    Most who voted for them would be at a loss to explain any of their policies except overturning the referendum result.
    Which is odd for a party with Democratic in their name.

  9. #39
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    That wouldn't happen in a real GE, it's obvious they have only done well in the recent EU poll due to tactical voting to try to thwart BXP, same applies to the greens.
    Most who voted for them would be at a loss to explain any of their policies except overturning the referendum result.
    Which is odd for a party with Democratic in their name.
    Seen 2 more appropriate names for them - Libtards (not sure if that should be different vowel in second place)
    and Libdims.

  10. #40
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    That wouldn't happen in a real GE, it's obvious they have only done well in the recent EU poll due to tactical voting to try to thwart BXP, same applies to the greens.
    Most who voted for them would be at a loss to explain any of their policies except overturning the referendum result.
    Which is odd for a party with Democratic in their name.
    Times have changed.....
    The Old party loyalties have gone...
    Nothing to do with Lib Dem’s.......it was their policy “Remain in Europe” nothing else...
    The same will apply in a General Election plus the fact that They are not Nigel Farage......Jeremy Corbyn ......or whoever is proclaimed leader of the Conservatives, and the Lib Dem policy is to remain in the EU.
    Make no mistake I am not a Lib Dem and never have been....
    Currently enduring an arrogant self important, leading member of the ERG group as my MP.
    Had Enough!

  11. #41
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    Re: Euro elections

    As a true blue Remainer through and through, this last election was a challenge. I will not vote for a leave candidate, although the EU certainly has many faults and costs , the benefit to our nation is overwhelming, and leaving is truly cutting off our nose to spoil our face.
    We had no communication at all from the loocla Conservative candidates as to which way they were inclined, although I can virtually certainly guess what they would have stated. So I left it to my wife as she had a proxy, I was manning a polling station and could not vote. I am happy to say she voted for an anti leave party.
    The hypocrisy of my own local MP is beyond bounds and whatever happens I will never again vote again for Matt Hancock who stood as remain, but now he is going for the top job has declared himself firmly in the Brexit camp. I very much hope he is dumped at the next election , however I do not know if West Suffolk has ever voted for anything but conservative.

    This court action against Boris I believe is totally wrong and an abuse of the legal system. Although I am certain that he lied to us, I am also very much aware of some very embarrassing downright lies told by the remain side, Politicians lie, get over it.
    If he does indeed get the PMs job it will present an interesting challenge, there is no way he will get any of the opposition to support him and I believe 10 - 15 Conservatives. have sworn never to either, so what rabbit can he pull from the hat? leaving the present situation to simply roll over to not deal on the 31/10 is something which will trigger a no confidence vote and slaughter at the resulting election
    There is only one, which will get him the votes he needs and that is quite simply another referendum, and remain will have to be on the paper.
    I think it will give the country a true chance to unify as no body could then argue they did not know what they were voting for, if its leave for a second time then. it truly will be bye bye
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  12. #42
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    the benefit to our nation is overwhelming,
    You seem a fairly reasonable soul, specifically your statement that there were lies all round, "Politicians lie, get over it" I couldn't agree more.

    But I've been waiting probably four, maybe five, years now to have these overwhelming benefits of EU membership pointed out to me in real and measurable terms, and I'm still waiting.

    Another referendum will solve absolutely nothing, whatever way it goes (and nobody can call it no matter what they think) it would almost certainly be another close call, but even in the event that it became 52-48 for remain, anyone who thinks that the whole process could then be wrapped up, swept aside, and the matter would be over, is living in as much of a bubble as those who think that walking away from the EU will fix all the UK's problems overnight.

    Our relationship with the EU is going to have to change, and change meaningfully, whether you want to call that leave, remain, leaving with a deal, or even remaining with a new deal is largely immaterial, it's the substance that matters. Mrs Mays deal failed because it was a sop and people seen through it, doesn't matter what you call it or what she tried to call it, it failed because it wasn't up to the job. The only way out of this is for all sides to realise that no one is going to get exactly what they want and therefore seek a compromise, and I believe that up until now there hasn't really been much effort made to achieve that by anyone.

  13. #43
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    Re: Euro elections

    This court action against Boris I believe is totally wrong and an abuse of the legal system
    Fly with the crows..........

  14. #44
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    But I've been waiting probably four, maybe five, years now to have these overwhelming benefits of EU membership pointed out to me in real and measurable terms, and I'm still waiting.
    The first thing from an agriculture perspective is the EU has saved farming from our own government. There is little doubt that subsidies if any, would have been channeled exclusively towards green issues, that is where the votes lies. We are certain to experience far more pressure from animal rights, and environmental campaigners once we leave. The EU is far more friendly towards traditional farming as we see it.
    I expect a huge curtailment of subsidies for agriculture and many of the greening issues that we Arte currently paid for will become the legal norm and attract no payment. instead you can be certain environmental groups will receive far greater share to spend on half baked schemes which most country dwellers know are never going to work, but environmentalists and and consultants will earn a fat wage
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    The first thing from an agriculture perspective is the EU has saved farming from our own government. There is little doubt that subsidies if any, would have been channeled exclusively towards green issues, that is where the votes lies. We are certain to experience far more pressure from animal rights, and environmental campaigners once we leave. The EU is far more friendly towards traditional farming as we see it.
    I expect a huge curtailment of subsidies for agriculture and many of the greening issues that we Arte currently paid for will become the legal norm and attract no payment. instead you can be certain environmental groups will receive far greater share to spend on half baked schemes which most country dwellers know are never going to work, but environmentalists and and consultants will earn a fat wage
    I have been involved with the defra consultation meetings for the new ELMS schemes and believe me the above view is short of the mark as to where they are proposing to go with things. Remember as things stand there will be no direct payments to farmers, no environmental schemes that are stand alone, the only "subsidy" route will be to apply for the ELMS scheme. The bar will be raised and it is my belief from the meetings and consultation that basic compliance with current X compliance rules will generate diddly squat in terms of income. The only way to get anything like the amounts currently received (and probably still will be by our European competitors) will be to sign up to very stringent environmental measures that mean basic productive farming will be on the back burner. The only takers will be the likes of the National trust and large land owning bodies such as the utility companies whom it will suite to the ground.

  16. #46
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    half baked schemes which most country dwellers know are never going to work, but environmentalists and and consultants will earn a fat wage
    Which is precisely where we are at already, and who has taken us there, the EU!

    Why do you think that all these so called environmental groups are lobbying like hell to keep us as closely attached to the EU as possible? You think they'll do even better with the UK leaving, they're utterly convinced (and telling everyone who's prepared to listen) that they'll do much worse, you can't both be making a valid argument!

  17. #47
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Which is precisely where we are at already, and who has taken us there, the EU!

    Why do you think that all these so called environmental groups are lobbying like hell to keep us as closely attached to the EU as possible? You think they'll do even better with the UK leaving, they're utterly convinced (and telling everyone who's prepared to listen) that they'll do much worse, you can't both be making a valid argument!
    Tree huggers cant wait to get us out of Europe....
    Any Government no matter what colour will be their Patsy......buying votes with the money that has previously been used to indirectly buy food......through the subsidy system.
    NZ is much quoted in this area.......when it happened in NZ no one cared a jot about the welfare of animals ,farmers or the environment....
    Not so here.....prospect after Brexit of no subs and probably the toughest environmental regulations imaginable.
    Until hunger sets in .......or the price of food exceeds the ability of the general public to buy it ........we as farmers are stuffed.

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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Tree huggers cant wait to get us out of Europe....
    That simply isn't true!

    You're just making up 'facts' to support your own personal point of view.

  19. #49
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    That simply isn't true!

    You're just making up 'facts' to support your own personal point of view.
    It is true......
    The sooner we are out the sooner they can hijack the support that is currently paid to The Agricultural industry....
    See Big Andes post above.

  20. #50
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    Re: Euro elections

    You really would argue that black was white!

    30 secs on google,..............

    https://friendsoftheearth.uk/brexit/...-were-involved

    https://www.brexitenvironment.co.uk/...Et-al-2018.pdf

    The nature of my farming activity brings me in to contact with such groups more often than I'd care for. Ulster Wildlife, Woodland Trust, RSPB, I've has direct dealings with all and they are firmly remain. Then throw in the fact that the 'Greens' are a deeply remain party as a whole and your contention is plainly nonsense.

    But hey, I'm sure they all greatly appreciate the support of people like yourself, they certainly couldn't have thwarted brexit so effectively thus far without it.

  21. #51
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    You really would argue that black was white!

    30 secs on google,..............

    https://friendsoftheearth.uk/brexit/...-were-involved

    https://www.brexitenvironment.co.uk/...Et-al-2018.pdf

    The nature of my farming activity brings me in to contact with such groups more often than I'd care for. Ulster Wildlife, Woodland Trust, RSPB, I've has direct dealings with all and they are firmly remain. Then throw in the fact that the 'Greens' are a deeply remain party as a whole and your contention is plainly nonsense.

    But hey, I'm sure they all greatly appreciate the support of people like yourself, they certainly couldn't have thwarted brexit so effectively thus far without it.
    I am sorry you fail to understand the agenda these people are pursuing with regards to agriculture. They would like to stick in Europe as they can see the EU is far friendlier towards their policies regarding industry. They believe outside that industry will be given a green light to do as it more or less pleases if it creates jobs. What goes on behind a wall and closed doors as long as you cannot see large plumes of smoke is fine.
    However on an Agricultural issue, which the voters can see, it is a completely different ball game. pretty flowers in cornfields is a win win for them and weeds infested unkempt pasture is the ultimate aim with beavers and bears gambolling in the sunshine, with Joe Smith walking his pack of dogs wherever he likes as long as they don't kill the foxes!
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  22. #52
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    I am sorry you fail to understand the agenda these people are pursuing with regards to agriculture.
    Well firstly, that isn't actually the debate!

    The fact is that they are strongly pro-EU like yourself and Mr Gee, yourselves and them are on the same side, and by thwarting the UK's departure from the EU you are giving them succor.

    But to go further if you wish, I do come in to contact with them, but have little time for them generally. They are quangos mostly and certainly have no business masquerading as 'charities', it doesn't surprise me that they wish to cling so tightly to the EU as I consider them to be one of the worst manifestations of the increasing power of the EU, and if you read either of those links they will pretty much support my assertions. Some of the individuals within them are well meaning enough souls and actually quite receptive to a bit of education about how things are in reality if you get talking to them on a one to one basis.

    Also, the 'environmental lobby' are mostly townies, which means that (a) they don't have much of a clue about the actual environment, and (b) they'll be easily placated with a few box ticking schemes which probably won't be anywhere near as dictatorial as the present EU inspired support system. But the farmers need to engage with them (and vise-versa!) rather than sitting back hurling insults at each other and depicting the other side as the bogey men, and I think there's a much greater opportunity for this to happen once things are being dealt with at a national level as opposed to EU level. Leaving the EU will definitely clip their wings a bit and whereas at present they sit back and let the EU dictate the schemes which they then row in behind, in future they'll have to be considerably more receptive to compromise themselves.

  23. #53
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Well firstly, that isn't actually the debate!

    The fact is that they are strongly pro-EU like yourself and Mr Gee, yourselves and them are on the same side, and by thwarting the UK's departure from the EU you are giving them succor.

    But to go further if you wish, I do come in to contact with them, but have little time for them generally. They are quangos mostly and certainly have no business masquerading as 'charities', it doesn't surprise me that they wish to cling so tightly to the EU as I consider them to be one of the worst manifestations of the increasing power of the EU, and if you read either of those links they will pretty much support my assertions. Some of the individuals within them are well meaning enough souls and actually quite receptive to a bit of education about how things are in reality if you get talking to them on a one to one basis.

    Also, the 'environmental lobby' are mostly townies, which means that (a) they don't have much of a clue about the actual environment, and (b) they'll be easily placated with a few box ticking schemes which probably won't be anywhere near as dictatorial as the present EU inspired support system. But the farmers need to engage with them (and vise-versa!) rather than sitting back hurling insults at each other and depicting the other side as the bogey men, and I think there's a much greater opportunity for this to happen once things are being dealt with at a national level as opposed to EU level. Leaving the EU will definitely clip their wings a bit and whereas at present they sit back and let the EU dictate the schemes which they then row in behind, in future they'll have to be considerably more receptive to compromise themselves.
    You my friend are living in a dream world!
    If you think for one minute that the "EU dictatorial schemes" are actually the rules that come from the EU you really have had your head in the sand for the last 20 years.
    Every scheme that is administered by our government and its agencies has some of the tightest rules in the EU, its not the EU that write the rules for these, they lay out the general guidelines and boxes that need to be generally ticked, its the agencies and the government that set the rule book. So if you think that is going to be different …… dream on, that is if there is a scheme to go for that is voluntary!

  24. #54
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    Re: Euro elections

    Peterborough would seem to say they are not quite ready for Brexit!

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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Peterborough would seem to say they are not quite ready for Brexit!
    Looks like they're not quite ready for Labour either. They had a Labour MP who won with 22,950 votes and 48.1% of the votes in 2017 but yesterday they managed a lowly 10, 484 votes (less than half of the 2017 total ) and 30.9% of the turnout. The Brexit party was formed 8 weeks ago today and only came 2nd because they were short by 683 votes. They gained 28.9% of the turnout, all from a standing start. The figures should tell us something.

  26. #56
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Peterborough would seem to say they are not quite ready for Brexit!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Looks like they're not quite ready for Labour either. They had a Labour MP who won with 22,950 votes and 48.1% of the votes in 2017 but yesterday they managed a lowly 10, 484 votes (less than half of the 2017 total ) and 30.9% of the turnout. The Brexit party was formed 8 weeks ago today and only came 2nd because they were short by 683 votes. They gained 28.9% of the turnout, all from a standing start. The figures should tell us something.
    I wondered that even though the Brexit candidate was a former Tory donor, perhaps Peterborough is a bit too "working class" to pouch a multi-millionare Tory Donor for an MP?
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  27. #57
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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Looks like they're not quite ready for Labour either. They had a Labour MP who won with 22,950 votes and 48.1% of the votes in 2017 but yesterday they managed a lowly 10, 484 votes (less than half of the 2017 total ) and 30.9% of the turnout. The Brexit party was formed 8 weeks ago today and only came 2nd because they were short by 683 votes. They gained 28.9% of the turnout, all from a standing start. The figures should tell us something.
    If labour want to be taken seriously again they need a new leader asap

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    Re: Euro elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Recycled View Post
    If labour want to be taken seriously again they need a new leader asap
    And a new Shadow Home Secretary (our Dianne got a 2.2 in history at Cambrdige so that was tax payer money well spent !) And a new Shadow Chancellor, a new Shadow Foreign Secretary, need I go on ? If it was down to me I wouldn't pay any of them in rusty washers.

  29. #59
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    Re: Euro elections

    It’s not about Party warfare.
    Tribal warfare is in the past.
    Who won in Peterborough is largely irrelevant, what is relevant though is who did not win.
    Uk politics have been taken over by one issue.....”For or Against”.
    Becoming apparent that the numbers for “For” when added up are not quite enough.

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    Re: Euro elections

    .............and never will be enough!

    Because those 'against' by and large consider themselves as superior to those 'for'. The academics, the celebs, the media, the captains of industry, even the stinking corrupt politicians themselves are mostly 'remain', and one of them (as the BBC obviously think) is worth so much more than one of us plebs at the bottom of the evolutionary cycle.

    The establishment always wins, they are winning thus far (despite loosing a 'democratic' vote) and WILL win out in the end.

    Nothing surer!

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