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Thread: Boris

  1. #31
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    Re: Boris

    Nope, Stickola has imposed an anti enjoy yourself tax in Scotland!
    Nothing enjoyable comes cheap North of the Border..

  2. #32
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    I'm actually warming to BJ.
    I've started judging politicians via the following 'would I like to go for a pint with them' BJ is the only one amongst the current lot who I think would be fairly entertaining and who would stand their round.
    The rest are either boring farts, vegans or don't drink.

    https://www.comedycard.co.uk/product...tolerant-vegan

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    Re: Boris

    Nice to hear from you Joyce!
    jack caley

  4. #34
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Nice to hear from you Joyce!
    jack caley
    Thanks Jack
    x

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Nice to hear from you Joyce!
    jack caley
    From me also Joyce. Hope all is well.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Joyce's Avatar
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    From me also Joyce. Hope all is well.
    Yes thanks, Zaza
    Had to move back to seaside so I could breathe though!
    x

  7. #37
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Joyce View Post
    Yes thanks, Zaza
    Had to move back to seaside so I could breathe though!
    x
    Ah, didn't know that you had moved again. You deserve a decent environment after all your tribulations. Best wishes to you Joyce. xxx

  8. #38
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    Re: Boris

    Looks like you need to click and paste...
    https://youtu.be/cOfffyn4SWI
    and after that one

    https://youtu.be/ptfmAY6M6aA

  9. #39
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    And so who are you accusing me of implying that they were either stupid or not impostant ? I was delivering facts. Deal with it !

    It was just a comment. But since you've got your self-righteous hat on...


    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    One of the principal problems we are seeing with leaving the EU​ is that anyone less that 46 years old has never experienced life outside of it.

    Is that the Royal we? These pesky 'youngsters' eh?
    Forming their own opinions instead of thinking what their elders want them to think. No wonder the country's in a mess.


    Personally speaking, I've never shot myself in the foot. After careful consideration of the facts as I see them, I have however, still formed the opinion that it would be a bad idea. Others may disagree, and that's fine (there's one old boy in particular I know, with a limp, who keeps telling me you don't need all your toes anyway) but I don't think that invalidates ​my opinion.


    That's a metaphor, by the way. Don't take it literally.


    And trying to lecture someone with A-grade O-level and B-grade Higher English, on their use of the language, is just digging your hole deeper.


    The problem with your world of 40 years ago is this - it doesn't exist any more. It doesn't really matter whether we're in the EU or not, the world is much more interconnected now than it was in the past.
    Let's look at the, much anticipated, trade deal with the US. Despite Trump's promise of unicorns at the end of the rainbow on Nov 1st, Congress will not pass any trade deal if a no-deal Brexit results in a hard Irish border. "But", I hear you say, "we're a sovereign nation, our borders are none of their business".
    You're right, in an ideal world it shouldn't be. Sadly though, this isn't an ideal world, but it's the world we have to live in.


    Boris has also scuppered most of the other trade deals that should be in the pipeline because of his lack of understanding of WTO rules. Boris has indicated that, in the event of no-deal, the UK will not apply tariffs to EU goods. Under WTO rules, if we allow tariff free access to one country we have no trade deal with, we have to allow every country we have no trade deal with (which is just about the whole world) tariff free access. This is why Canada, and doubtless every other country we are trying to negotiate with, are currently stalling on trade talks. Come Nov they could all have tariff free access to the UK without needing to bother with a trade deal, or giving us any concessions in return.
    Boris and the Brexiteers are so completely blinkered by their hatred of the EU they're not seeing the bigger picture
    It's not about being afraid to stand on our own two feet. It's about recognising this is the world we live in today. Which is completely different to the world of 40 years ago.


    May might have been useless but her intentions were good. We're now being led by the Pied Piper.


    And Boris is now branding those who don't support no-deal as 'collaborators'. Really? What's next? Enemies of the state? Internment for the 'unbelievers'? Is this what Take Back Control really means?
    I never thought I'd see the day when a British Prime Minister would use that sort of rhetoric against British citizens just because they don't share his political views.
    If this is the way this country is going, the sooner Scotland extricates itself, the better. And that's coming from someone who is not an SNP supporter and voted No the last time.

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    Re: Boris

    It is very satisfying to witness the adroit use of your time.

  11. #41
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    Re: Boris

    To quote you...
    The problem with your world of 40 years ago is this - it doesn't exist any more.
    The problem is despite all his protestations Jeremy Corbynís reason for existence is to take us straight back there.
    The Eu despite all its faults prevents Marxism.




    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    It was just a comment. But since you've got your self-righteous hat on...





    Is that the Royal we? These pesky 'youngsters' eh?
    Forming their own opinions instead of thinking what their elders want them to think. No wonder the country's in a mess.


    Personally speaking, I've never shot myself in the foot. After careful consideration of the facts as I see them, I have however, still formed the opinion that it would be a bad idea. Others may disagree, and that's fine (there's one old boy in particular I know, with a limp, who keeps telling me you don't need all your toes anyway) but I don't think that invalidates ​my opinion.


    That's a metaphor, by the way. Don't take it literally.


    And trying to lecture someone with A-grade O-level and B-grade Higher English, on their use of the language, is just digging your hole deeper.


    The problem with your world of 40 years ago is this - it doesn't exist any more. It doesn't really matter whether we're in the EU or not, the world is much more interconnected now than it was in the past.
    Let's look at the, much anticipated, trade deal with the US. Despite Trump's promise of unicorns at the end of the rainbow on Nov 1st, Congress will not pass any trade deal if a no-deal Brexit results in a hard Irish border. "But", I hear you say, "we're a sovereign nation, our borders are none of their business".
    You're right, in an ideal world it shouldn't be. Sadly though, this isn't an ideal world, but it's the world we have to live in.


    Boris has also scuppered most of the other trade deals that should be in the pipeline because of his lack of understanding of WTO rules. Boris has indicated that, in the event of no-deal, the UK will not apply tariffs to EU goods. Under WTO rules, if we allow tariff free access to one country we have no trade deal with, we have to allow every country we have no trade deal with (which is just about the whole world) tariff free access. This is why Canada, and doubtless every other country we are trying to negotiate with, are currently stalling on trade talks. Come Nov they could all have tariff free access to the UK without needing to bother with a trade deal, or giving us any concessions in return.
    Boris and the Brexiteers are so completely blinkered by their hatred of the EU they're not seeing the bigger picture
    It's not about being afraid to stand on our own two feet. It's about recognising this is the world we live in today. Which is completely different to the world of 40 years ago.


    May might have been useless but her intentions were good. We're now being led by the Pied Piper.


    And Boris is now branding those who don't support no-deal as 'collaborators'. Really? What's next? Enemies of the state? Internment for the 'unbelievers'? Is this what Take Back Control really means?
    I never thought I'd see the day when a British Prime Minister would use that sort of rhetoric against British citizens just because they don't share his political views.
    If this is the way this country is going, the sooner Scotland extricates itself, the better. And that's coming from someone who is not an SNP supporter and voted No the last time.

  12. #42
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    To quote you...
    The problem with your world of 40 years ago is this - it doesn't exist any more.
    The problem is despite all his protestations Jeremy Corbynís reason for existence is to take us straight back there.
    The Eu despite all its faults prevents Marxism.
    I am out of my depth hear, but maybe the EU might prevent Marxism, if we still believe that the European concept prevents another European war. However I have a nasty feeling it is more likely to start one with its treatment of countries like Italy ,Greece and Hungary.
    Maybe not Marxist, but is not Europe heavily socialist believing in central planning?
    Hence the reason for the populist moves.
    The main thrust of this discussion has been, I think, should we ignore history? Being 85 years old, I think we can learn a lot from history, and hope it does not repeat itself. I do have a certain amount of experience in that direction here, nobody does what the old duffer says!
    jack caley

  13. #43
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    . . . snip . . .

    The problem with your world of 40 years ago is this - it doesn't exist any more. It doesn't really matter whether we're in the EU or not, the world is much more interconnected now than it was in the past.

    . . . snip . . .
    The world of 40 years ago doesn't exist any more, only partially true. Means of communication, travel, interconnected economies, . . . are much different.

    What is the SAME is the desire of certain types to CONTROLL the lives of others - the means of communication, travel, interconnected economies, and advanced research on how to use propaganda means in "the new economy", these types have increased influence.

    Example, the 200,000 Chinese State sponsored Facebook and Twitter accounts which were taken down this week.

  14. #44
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    Re: Boris

    Try this for a view of how a British Government of the day viewed the importance of Agriculture to the nation.
    In a short phrase ďthey didnít ď.
    Food could be imported much cheaper from elsewhere in the world, in the governments thinking there was no need for a thriving vibrant agri sector.
    Sound familiar?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007qz7

    Pretty sure it is the right episode....
    A excellent series of programmes.

  15. #45
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Try this for a view of how a British Government of the day viewed the importance of Agriculture to the nation.
    In a short phrase ďthey didnít ď.
    Food could be imported much cheaper from elsewhere in the world, in the governments thinking there was no need for a thriving vibrant agri sector.
    Sound familiar?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007qz7

    Pretty sure it is the right episode....
    A excellent series of programmes.
    I finally got around to listening to that lead. As you say very interesting.I suppose the business of food security, as we called it, is very important to me. My childhood was wartime, which did of course include food rationing. I suppose my father would be classed as a peasant farmer, of the old school, very mixed with different enterprises, labour intensive so therefore low output. I had an older brother, so therefore had to do national service, followed by agricultural college.
    The farm was not big enough for all of us,so eventually I did finish up working as a Maff drainage officer, administering grant aid.Alongside the subsidies available for wheat etc.
    The whole thrust of government policy in those days was investment in agriculture to provide food security and the ensuing benefits to the balance of trade. Indeed there was a new drive for increased food production put out by a peter Walker, I believe. That policy was suddenly dropped, and in any case the CAP took over.
    In our case, as pig producers, we lost out to the competition from Europe, which ignored all welfare and environmental rules. I remember seeing ditches full of pig slurry in Belgium. Sadly, Yorkshire Farmers bacon factory bought pigmeat cheaply from Europe, and it forced at least 30 pig producers in the local area out of business.
    The point I am trying to make, is, that as someone who was born, and trained , to be a farmer, I see the travesty of lack of support to a farming industry, environmentalists saying we should plant trees and flood hugely fertile land on Sunk Island, near here, when we are now importing about half of our food because it is supposed to be cheaper, whereas in actually fact when you really cost it out in terms of foreign exchange it is dearer.
    Rant over,
    jack caley

  16. #46
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I finally got around to listening to that lead. As you say very interesting.I suppose the business of food security, as we called it, is very important to me. My childhood was wartime, which did of course include food rationing. I suppose my father would be classed as a peasant farmer, of the old school, very mixed with different enterprises, labour intensive so therefore low output. I had an older brother, so therefore had to do national service, followed by agricultural college.
    The farm was not big enough for all of us,so eventually I did finish up working as a Maff drainage officer, administering grant aid.Alongside the subsidies available for wheat etc.
    The whole thrust of government policy in those days was investment in agriculture to provide food security and the ensuing benefits to the balance of trade. Indeed there was a new drive for increased food production put out by a peter Walker, I believe. That policy was suddenly dropped, and in any case the CAP took over.
    In our case, as pig producers, we lost out to the competition from Europe, which ignored all welfare and environmental rules. I remember seeing ditches full of pig slurry in Belgium. Sadly, Yorkshire Farmers bacon factory bought pigmeat cheaply from Europe, and it forced at least 30 pig producers in the local area out of business.
    The point I am trying to make, is, that as someone who was born, and trained , to be a farmer, I see the travesty of lack of support to a farming industry, environmentalists saying we should plant trees and flood hugely fertile land on Sunk Island, near here, when we are now importing about half of our food because it is supposed to be cheaper, whereas in actually fact when you really cost it out in terms of foreign exchange it is dearer.
    Rant over,
    jack caley
    But Jack, the British pig industry was scuppered by the UK government of the day making unilateral pronouncements on welfare issues which meant that overnight the UK industry was at a huge disadvantage. It had nothing to do with the EU in any shape or form, when the government here dictated production systems on UK producers which meant that Danish producers were getting 50% more piglets born per sow than here. A friend of mine was destroyed by this move having just spent nearly a million pounds on high welfare buildings which did not meet with thew views of a certain MP who I am sure you are well acquainted with Mr Richard Body!
    Anybody who believes the Conservative party is a friend of farming should study those changes.
    Perhaps at the same time should also study a report published in the Economist written by the Right wing Adam Smith Institute which is forecasting a drop of 20% in food prices thanks to a hard Brexit. However it is warning that this will be possibly accompanied by devastation of the Financial services sector if we are not very careful
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    But Jack, the British pig industry was scuppered by the UK government of the day making unilateral pronouncements on welfare issues which meant that overnight the UK industry was at a huge disadvantage. It had nothing to do with the EU in any shape or form, when the government here dictated production systems on UK producers which meant that Danish producers were getting 50% more piglets born per sow than here. A friend of mine was destroyed by this move having just spent nearly a million pounds on high welfare buildings which did not meet with thew views of a certain MP who I am sure you are well acquainted with Mr Richard Body!
    Anybody who believes the Conservative party is a friend of farming should study those changes.
    Perhaps at the same time should also study a report published in the Economist written by the Right wing Adam Smith Institute which is forecasting a drop of 20% in food prices thanks to a hard Brexit. However it is warning that this will be possibly accompanied by devastation of the Financial services sector if we are not very careful
    You are quite correct, it was the welfare issue, that forced my son in to huge extra capital expenditure,, that he could not pay for. Especially when for instance Yorkshire Farmers bacon factory were able to depress prices even further by buying from Belgium and Holland. I visited Belgium at the time and saw the drains full of pig slurry, from buildings that housed pigs in a manner that were banned here.
    I agree with you about the lower food prices, especially if we finish up importing American pork, which was much cheaper than ours.Chicken will be far cheaper, I have previously posted about chicken from Brazil at 35p each!
    jack caley

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    Re: Boris

    Wow! It's been quiet here, considering all the goings on. Has Boris prorogued this thread as well?

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    Wow! It's been quiet here, considering all the goings on. Has Boris prorogued this thread as well?
    To be honest, the whole thing is making me ill!
    I am banned by my daughter from watching tv too much!
    Whether Brexit was right or wrong, this situation is definitely wrong. The worst decision is no decision!
    jack caley

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    Re: Boris

    What should have happened 3 years ago was that instead of the conservatives laying down rules just to placate their own party divides that Brexit should have been open to a central organising committee from all parties and that way a compromise deal could have been sorted. I could live with leaving the EU if we still have free trade between us and no tariffs imposed either way. If we are not at a disadvantage to other EU countries that would be ok, not as good in my opinion as being in the EU but ok.

    I am sure that many of those that want to leave would live with a compromise deal also, not in their opinion as good as a complete leave, but again liveable with.

    If that is the case if a multi parliament committee had negotiated it would have stood a chance of getting through everybody could live with it and we would have moved onto the next thing. As it is, no matter what now, there is nigh on 50% of the population that is going to be unhappy with the outcome. People can go on about remoaners, as I can point out that there was a bunch of lies and land of milk and honey speeches from the Brexit side. But the simple fact is the issue has split the country and it will take a whole lot of healing. The only way is for all sides to get a bit of what they want.

  21. #51
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    What should have happened 3 years ago was that instead of the conservatives laying down rules just to placate their own party divides that Brexit should have been open to a central organising committee from all parties and that way a compromise deal could have been sorted. I could live with leaving the EU if we still have free trade between us and no tariffs imposed either way. If we are not at a disadvantage to other EU countries that would be ok, not as good in my opinion as being in the EU but ok.

    I am sure that many of those that want to leave would live with a compromise deal also, not in their opinion as good as a complete leave, but again liveable with.

    If that is the case if a multi parliament committee had negotiated it would have stood a chance of getting through everybody could live with it and we would have moved onto the next thing. As it is, no matter what now, there is nigh on 50% of the population that is going to be unhappy with the outcome. People can go on about remoaners, as I can point out that there was a bunch of lies and land of milk and honey speeches from the Brexit side. But the simple fact is the issue has split the country and it will take a whole lot of healing. The only way is for all sides to get a bit of what they want.
    Thank you for that contribution, sensible and responsible debate.
    I think I would agree with a great deal of what you said, with the proviso that I think it was a little naive.
    From the very outset, Barnier said that if he managed to block Brexit he would have done his job properly. The Europeans still want our money, and especially our market, so there was never really a good chance of a reasonable settlement, especially when May and Robbins were remainers.I hope that is not provocative!
    The Europeans are very protectionist, but, maybe it was a forlone hope that the free market could be continued. They have got such a hold over our economy now, we cannot afford to impose tariffs. I still do not know how it is going to affect our machinery business, but even that at the moment is very quiet, because of the Brexit uncertainty.
    Now,I am rambling on, all I can seem to do at the moment is wait and see!
    jack caley

  22. #52
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    Re: Boris

    Was there not a compromise deal in place and the only one the EU would apparently agree to?
    The self serving Westminster twats from different political poles were never going to agree with one another as long as political power was in the offing.

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    Was there not a compromise deal in place and the only one the EU would apparently agree to?
    The self serving Westminster twats from different political poles were never going to agree with one another as long as political power was in the offing.
    Sums up UK Politics for the last thirty or forty years!

    For me....

    A root and branch shake up would help.
    Candidates for election to Parliament must have lived and worked permanently and physically in the constituency that they are standing in for a minimum of Ten years.

    Parliament should introduce secret electronic voting.
    MPís could then right or wrong, vote with their conscience.

    Those two simple changes would bring about a much more stable and reflective of the population Parliament. At a stroke Media witch hunts would be stopped allowing sensible outcomes to difficult subjects without the destruction of perfectly capable MPís because they failed to fit into the media picture.

  24. #54
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Sums up UK Politics for the last thirty or forty years!

    For me....

    A root and branch shake up would help.
    Candidates for election to Parliament must have lived and worked permanently and physically in the constituency that they are standing in for a minimum of Ten years.

    Parliament should introduce secret electronic voting.
    MPís could then right or wrong, vote with their conscience.

    Those two simple changes would bring about a much more stable and reflective of the population Parliament. At a stroke Media witch hunts would be stopped allowing sensible outcomes to difficult subjects without the destruction of perfectly capable MPís because they failed to fit into the media picture.
    You might even think about abandoning first-past-the post voting & introduce Hare-Clark proportional representation.

    THAT would stir things up!
    Agtronix - the home of the Weedswiper

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Sums up UK Politics for the last thirty or forty years!

    For me....

    A root and branch shake up would help.
    Candidates for election to Parliament must have lived and worked permanently and physically in the constituency that they are standing in for a minimum of Ten years.

    Parliament should introduce secret electronic voting.
    MPís could then right or wrong, vote with their conscience.

    Those two simple changes would bring about a much more stable and reflective of the population Parliament. At a stroke Media witch hunts would be stopped allowing sensible outcomes to difficult subjects without the destruction of perfectly capable MPís because they failed to fit into the media picture.
    I am afraid I would respectfully disagree. Does an MP represent his constituents, or his own particular visions of power?
    Secret electronic voting would mean that that MP is not accountable. An example locally is a Labour MP whose constituency voted 72 per cent leave, but she is campaigning Remain.
    I do agree that the MP,s we are getting now are not suitable material.
    jack caley

  26. #56
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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I am afraid I would respectfully disagree. Does an MP represent his constituents, or his own particular visions of power?
    Secret electronic voting would mean that that MP is not accountable. An example locally is a Labour MP whose constituency voted 72 per cent leave, but she is campaigning Remain.
    I do agree that the MP,s we are getting now are not suitable material.
    jack caley
    Yep but secret voting prevents party whips dictating to MPís how to vote....
    Or indeed the fear being the subject of a media witch hunt.
    It may not be perfect but it would be much better than the current corrupt patronage system.
    Where the Yes Poodles arrive at the top.....

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Yep but secret voting prevents party whips dictating to MPís how to vote....
    Or indeed the fear being the subject of a media witch hunt.
    It may not be perfect but it would be much better than the current corrupt patronage system.
    Where the Yes Poodles arrive at the top.....
    You are right of course, but it reminds me somewhat of Topol in that musical where he said " on the other hand".
    regards,
    jack

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    You are right of course, but it reminds me somewhat of Topol in that musical where he said " on the other hand".
    regards,
    jack
    Hmmm
    I never get past the ďIf I were a Rich Man...........Ē bit

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    Re: Boris

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Hmmm
    I never get past the ďIf I were a Rich Man...........Ē bit
    Funny, I assumed you were a rich man!
    jack

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    Re: Boris

    Secret voting would also mean that an MP's constituents would be unable to check how their MP voted.

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