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Thread: European cooperation.

  1. #1
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    European cooperation.

    Just a small contribution, make of it what you will.
    This week we have sold our first machine in to France, to a cooperative of French farmers. We have sold to New Zealand before, but never to Europe. We delivered the machine near to Calais, on the way out to collect two new machines from Italy, one for Wales, one for Ireland.
    My point is that I do believe that Trade within Europe is a good thing. The original concept of the common market was a good thing. That concept has developed in to a federalist corrupt monster, acting against individual nation states who need to preserve their own individuality and strengths. You have onlyto see the empty factories on the Milan motorway to see the effect of the euro.
    jack caley

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Just a small contribution, make of it what you will.
    This week we have sold our first machine in to France, to a cooperative of French farmers. We have sold to New Zealand before, but never to Europe. We delivered the machine near to Calais, on the way out to collect two new machines from Italy, one for Wales, one for Ireland.
    My point is that I do believe that Trade within Europe is a good thing. The original concept of the common market was a good thing. That concept has developed in to a federalist corrupt monster, acting against individual nation states who need to preserve their own individuality and strengths. You have onlyto see the empty factories on the Milan motorway to see the effect of the euro.
    jack caley
    But Jack those Southern European nations signed up to the Euro on their own free accord. They did it fantasising that it would bring their economies into line with Germany. Certainly they enjoyed fun in the sun while it lasted, but the inability to continue borrowing faster than their corrupt governments could spend it, have done the damage, not the European banks.
    Is has been a not unexpected shock tp Northern Europe to see this effect. We were right to keep out, but the damage has hit us to as our currency sailed high enabling us to make German car makers get rich.
    Ireland has meanwhile done exceptionally well thanks to membership of Euroland after it took the right steps following the crash. If only Geece and Italy had done likewise, instead of lying and prevaricating to both their electorate and the European bank.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    But Jack those Southern European nations signed up to the Euro on their own free accord. They did it fantasising that it would bring their economies into line with Germany. Certainly they enjoyed fun in the sun while it lasted, but the inability to continue borrowing faster than their corrupt governments could spend it, have done the damage, not the European banks.
    Is has been a not unexpected shock tp Northern Europe to see this effect. We were right to keep out, but the damage has hit us to as our currency sailed high enabling us to make German car makers get rich.
    Ireland has meanwhile done exceptionally well thanks to membership of Euroland after it took the right steps following the crash. If only Geece and Italy had done likewise, instead of lying and prevaricating to both their electorate and the European bank.
    It was not Italy lying to Europe, the problem started long before that. According to my friends in Italy, and our own experience with them, the problem was the rate at which they entered the euro, made them uncompetitive. When we first started with Italy all those years ago, manufacturing costs were about half of our costs. Actually now their costs are higher than ours, but the Caravaggi family, being very resourceful have survived and progressed, with difficulty I think. However there are many empty factories along the Milan motorway. The Italians were a bit like the Chinese, devalue and export. When they joined the centralised control of the euro, they were scuppered.
    I remember when we paid for our original machines, you needed sackful of lire, many millions.
    jack caley

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    It was not Italy lying to Europe, the problem started long before that. According to my friends in Italy, and our own experience with them, the problem was the rate at which they entered the euro, made them uncompetitive. When we first started with Italy all those years ago, manufacturing costs were about half of our costs. Actually now their costs are higher than ours, but the Caravaggi family, being very resourceful have survived and progressed, with difficulty I think. However there are many empty factories along the Milan motorway. The Italians were a bit like the Chinese, devalue and export. When they joined the centralised control of the euro, they were scuppered.
    I remember when we paid for our original machines, you needed sackful of lire, many millions.
    jack caley
    I know that route Jack and you are right, up to a point, many of those places never made anything they were constructed on the back of large grants , often funded from Brussels. The factories were built as some rumour, some UK farms were built when 40% grants were available for nothing or perhaps less than and the only people ever to profit were the mafia and sometimes even government ministers would you believe
    The Italian people thought joining the Euro would stop a lot of the graft and were overly optimistic at what the lira was worth, they may have been better joining at a lower rate but it still would not help when the economy had always relied on inflation to sort it out.
    I have friends in Spain who cannot get used to the idea of not using cash as they say everything still works in cash there
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Wink Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    I know that route Jack and you are right, up to a point, many of those places never made anything they were constructed on the back of large grants , often funded from Brussels. The factories were built as some rumour, some UK farms were built when 40% grants were available for nothing or perhaps less than and the only people ever to profit were the mafia and sometimes even government ministers would you believe
    The Italian people thought joining the Euro would stop a lot of the graft and were overly optimistic at what the lira was worth, they may have been better joining at a lower rate but it still would not help when the economy had always relied on inflation to sort it out.
    I have friends in Spain who cannot get used to the idea of not using cash as they say everything still works in cash there
    My eldest lives in Spain and does business there. He tells me that a bank account is a minefield. The government has access to accounts. They assess tax and fines, and take the money out of the account, leaving the customer to appeal which can take months. Therefore you avoid banks.
    Those factories were there long before Europe. I remember Gian Paulo telling me of a company called Ideal on that road, assuming it was an Italian company. Actually it was a Hull company called Ideal Standard, about a hundred and fifty years old.
    As I say, when we first started the business with the Caravaggi's making the machines with a major amount of our design in them, their production costs were about half ours. We did try to have them manufactured in the U.K., but neither the banks nor the government would support us. I once sat in a meeting in Italy of a group of manufacturers who were guaranteed £300 million preproduction and export credit guarantee.
    On the subject of currency and devaluation, there was no such thing as telegraphing money, checques took six weeks to clear. One night in Basel my wife went out to buy a takeaway, leaving me in the hotel, taking her handbag in a plastic bag. When she returned we were grateful she had not been mugged, as she was carrying £27000 in cash in her handbag!
    The Italians got a better exchange rate there than here!
    Much different then!
    Jack Caley

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    My eldest lives in Spain and does business there. He tells me that a bank account is a minefield. The government has access to accounts. They assess tax and fines, and take the money out of the account, leaving the customer to appeal which can take months. Therefore you avoid banks.
    Those factories were there long before Europe. I remember Gian Paulo telling me of a company called Ideal on that road, assuming it was an Italian company. Actually it was a Hull company called Ideal Standard, about a hundred and fifty years old.
    As I say, when we first started the business with the Caravaggi's making the machines with a major amount of our design in them, their production costs were about half ours. We did try to have them manufactured in the U.K., but neither the banks nor the government would support us. I once sat in a meeting in Italy of a group of manufacturers who were guaranteed £300 million preproduction and export credit guarantee.
    On the subject of currency and devaluation, there was no such thing as telegraphing money, checques took six weeks to clear. One night in Basel my wife went out to buy a takeaway, leaving me in the hotel, taking her handbag in a plastic bag. When she returned we were grateful she had not been mugged, as she was carrying £27000 in cash in her handbag!
    The Italians got a better exchange rate there than here!
    Much different then!
    Jack Caley
    For Spain, read here in a year or two....all of those are on the way.

    For Italy.......read MAFIA!



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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Just a small contribution, make of it what you will.
    This week we have sold our first machine in to France, to a cooperative of French farmers. We have sold to New Zealand before, but never to Europe. We delivered the machine near to Calais, on the way out to collect two new machines from Italy, one for Wales, one for Ireland.
    My point is that I do believe that Trade within Europe is a good thing. The original concept of the common market was a good thing. That concept has developed in to a federalist corrupt monster, acting against individual nation states who need to preserve their own individuality and strengths. You have onlyto see the empty factories on the Milan motorway to see the effect of the euro.
    jack caley

    Hear hear.

    The Common Market was a good thing. A federal state was not on the ballot paper when the CM was voted for in the 70's.
    Don't itch for something if you're not prepared to scratch for it.

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by wr. View Post
    The Common Market was a good thing. A federal state was not on the ballot paper when the CM was voted for in the 70's.
    Spot on.
    Last edited by zaza; 30-09-19 at 11:03 AM.

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    Re: European cooperation.

    The impression I have from my friends in Spain is that the real reason cash is king is purely for the same reason builders here prefer it. My wife is a fan of plant and garden fairs/ shows. I have noticed, most of these , virtually every stand operates a very tight cash only policy . Sorry sir, is the response to a card being offered, our machine cannot get a signal, despite the presence of temporary masts and my own phone having full bars.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    The impression I have from my friends in Spain is that the real reason cash is king is purely for the same reason builders here prefer it. My wife is a fan of plant and garden fairs/ shows. I have noticed, most of these , virtually every stand operates a very tight cash only policy . Sorry sir, is the response to a card being offered, our machine cannot get a signal, despite the presence of temporary masts and my own phone having full bars.
    On this side of the pond, most small businesses prefer cash over credit because of the bank charges. I have only found one place that does NOT accept cash - the Passport Office

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    The impression I have from my friends in Spain is that the real reason cash is king is purely for the same reason builders here prefer it. My wife is a fan of plant and garden fairs/ shows. I have noticed, most of these , virtually every stand operates a very tight cash only policy . Sorry sir, is the response to a card being offered, our machine cannot get a signal, despite the presence of temporary masts and my own phone having full bars.
    There is no check at all on cash. Paperwork of any sort is evidence, whether it be a bank statement or an invoice.
    We now have to have HMRC access to our sage in our computer. Fair enough, providing that assessments are not made and cash taken subject to appeal, as in Spain.
    jack caley

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    There is no check at all on cash. Paperwork of any sort is evidence, whether it be a bank statement or an invoice.
    We now have to have HMRC access to our sage in our computer. Fair enough, providing that assessments are not made and cash taken subject to appeal, as in Spain.
    jack caley
    Itís coming!

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    Re: European cooperation.

    Annoy see last thread
    Last edited by Jack_Caley; 02-10-19 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Mistake

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