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Thread: Irish Border

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    Irish Border

    This post is very agricultural and inspiration from it comes from the news that there may be a boundary zone in Ireland to satisfy Brexit.
    The idea is not new, in fact it is about forty years old, a boundary zone existed on the Italian French border around the Mont Blanc tunnel. The tunnel is very high up, and there is restricted space around at both ends of the tunnel, the border being the centre of the tunnel. Therefore the customs clearance places were some distance from the tunnel, about 20 km either side at Cluse in France and Aosta in Italy. There were random checks on the road either side, but clearance was essential to proceed across France.
    One particular trip, my youngest son and myself were pulled up by the usual team of three, one officer, one leg man to do the search, and another who stood back with his machine gun, ready to spray you with bullets if you tried to do a runner.
    It was the accepted thing in those days that you had to have some sort of bribe, quite small , maybe a a small note, a packet of fags, or even a cigarette lighter. This particular day the officer decided he would join in the search, and proceeded to open up my box of tools. He came across a roll of adhesive tape, and with a smile on his face asked if he could have it. At first I was going to refuse it, but then consented. With an even bigger smile on his face, he said good, good, thank you , it is for jig a jig!
    I am still wondering to this day, how?
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    This post is very agricultural and inspiration from it comes from the news that there may be a boundary zone in Ireland to satisfy Brexit.
    The idea is not new, in fact it is about forty years old, a boundary zone existed on the Italian French border around the Mont Blanc tunnel. The tunnel is very high up, and there is restricted space around at both ends of the tunnel, the border being the centre of the tunnel. Therefore the customs clearance places were some distance from the tunnel, about 20 km either side at Cluse in France and Aosta in Italy. There were random checks on the road either side, but clearance was essential to proceed across France.
    One particular trip, my youngest son and myself were pulled up by the usual team of three, one officer, one leg man to do the search, and another who stood back with his machine gun, ready to spray you with bullets if you tried to do a runner.
    It was the accepted thing in those days that you had to have some sort of bribe, quite small , maybe a a small note, a packet of fags, or even a cigarette lighter. This particular day the officer decided he would join in the search, and proceeded to open up my box of tools. He came across a roll of adhesive tape, and with a smile on his face asked if he could have it. At first I was going to refuse it, but then consented. With an even bigger smile on his face, he said good, good, thank you , it is for jig a jig!
    I am still wondering to this day, how?
    jack caley
    to tie the goat down ?
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    to tie the goat down ?
    Now you are being racist!
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Reference the Irish Border, a more serious comment!
    This morning on the Today programme there was quite a revealing comment by a Southern Irish farmer. He was very afraid of their trade with us being undercut by for instance American imports to the U.K.
    Hardly surprising the amount of Irish beef that comes in to the UK.
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Anyone who has travelled around the area of the Irish border can see what utter Baloney any attempt at a taxed border between The Free State and Ulster is.
    An utter gift to the Smugglers and Quick Buck merchants....

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Anyone who has travelled around the area of the Irish border can see what utter Baloney any attempt at a taxed border between The Free State and Ulster is.
    An utter gift to the Smugglers and Quick Buck merchants....
    What's the difference, they have been doing it for years. The classic was a diesel pipeline across farm buildings.
    The guy on the radio was worried about being undercut in Ireland. He is going to be undercut in the UK anyway!
    That part of it worries me as an English farmer. I think Brexit is good for the country, but bad for farming. We are going to have a repeat of the corn laws fiasco.
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Reference the Irish Border, a more serious comment!
    This morning on the Today programme there was quite a revealing comment by a Southern Irish farmer. He was very afraid of their trade with us being undercut by for instance American imports to the U.K.
    Hardly surprising the amount of Irish beef that comes in to the UK.
    jack caley
    What he actually said was - cheap imports from the likes of the US would undercut the UK market for UK and Irish farmers alike. i.e. we'd all be in the midden together.
    A no-deal Brexit will leave Boris flailing around for trade deals anywhere he can get them. Trump will take him to the cleaners and we'll pay the price.
    Given the choice I'd rather compete against Irish beef produced to the same standards as our own, than cheap beef from the US.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    What he actually said was - cheap imports from the likes of the US would undercut the UK market for UK and Irish farmers alike. i.e. we'd all be in the midden together.
    A no-deal Brexit will leave Boris flailing around for trade deals anywhere he can get them. Trump will take him to the cleaners and we'll pay the price.
    Given the choice I'd rather compete against Irish beef produced to the same standards as our own, than cheap beef from the US.
    If you maintain the EU standards for hormones and antibiotics, I wouldn't worry about US beef

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    If you maintain the EU standards for hormones and antibiotics, I wouldn't worry about US beef
    I wouldn't trust this government to maintain standards in anything.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    What's the difference, they have been doing it for years. The classic was a diesel pipeline across farm buildings.
    The guy on the radio was worried about being undercut in Ireland. He is going to be undercut in the UK anyway!
    That part of it worries me as an English farmer. I think Brexit is good for the country, but bad for farming. We are going to have a repeat of the corn laws fiasco.
    jack caley
    What's the difference?
    For the last twenty or thirty years the guns and bombs have not been used...
    Introducing a border provides one of the perfect ingredients for a return to those times.
    Anyone who thinks it can be done has never been there or didn’t pay much attention when they where there.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    What he actually said was - cheap imports from the likes of the US would undercut the UK market for UK and Irish farmers alike. i.e. we'd all be in the midden together.
    A no-deal Brexit will leave Boris flailing around for trade deals anywhere he can get them. Trump will take him to the cleaners and we'll pay the price.
    Given the choice I'd rather compete against Irish beef produced to the same standards as our own, than cheap beef from the US.
    I quite agree, we will be in the midden together, but if you were to follow it through, the Irish farmer will be even worse off, higher cost of production, but possibly same tariffs if Boris does as he should. Put tariffs on pigmeat imports, Eu might review their tariffs on Welsh lamb for instance.
    It would be very sad to see guns and bombs again Ireland, but is not about time the Irish grew up!
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I quite agree, we will be in the midden together, but if you were to follow it through, the Irish farmer will be even worse off, higher cost of production, but possibly same tariffs if Boris does as he should. Put tariffs on pigmeat imports, Eu might review their tariffs on Welsh lamb for instance.
    It would be very sad to see guns and bombs again Ireland, but is not about time the Irish grew up!
    jack caley
    As I said, it's not the Irish you should be worrying about.
    And this Government won't tariff anything that would push up the cost of living for UK consumers, post Brexit

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    As I said, it's not the Irish you should be worrying about.
    And this Government won't tariff anything that would push up the cost of living for UK consumers, post Brexit
    Seconded, we will be left to like it or lump it as long as they can maintain cheap food for the Joe Average they will do it and sod the consequences for the UK farmers.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Seconded, we will be left to like it or lump it as long as they can maintain cheap food for the Joe Average they will do it and sod the consequences for the UK farmers.
    Spot on!

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I quite agree, we will be in the midden together, but if you were to follow it through, the Irish farmer will be even worse off, higher cost of production, but possibly same tariffs if Boris does as he should. Put tariffs on pigmeat imports, Eu might review their tariffs on Welsh lamb for instance.
    It would be very sad to see guns and bombs again Ireland, but is not about time the Irish grew up!
    jack caley
    The day we see this government put tariffs on food import will be the day you see pigs fly!
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    The day we see this government put tariffs on food import will be the day you see pigs fly!
    That is the trouble, Europe has got a stranglehold on our economy.
    I only mention it in the vain hope that we need something to counter the Welsh lamb problem. You could also involve the BMW VW situation to protect Nissan exports for instance. But as Nissan is a Japanese company, could it avoid tariffs?
    What a mess!
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    That is the trouble, Europe has got a stranglehold on our economy.
    I only mention it in the vain hope that we need something to counter the Welsh lamb problem. You could also involve the BMW VW situation to protect Nissan exports for instance. But as Nissan is a Japanese company, could it avoid tariffs?
    What a mess!
    jack caley
    Nissan has pretty well said last night that with 10% Tariffs and they are gone!

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    That is the trouble, Europe has got a stranglehold on our economy.
    It's got nothing to do with the EU.

    Whatever happens this Government has to make Brexit look like a success. The only measure of 'success' relevant to the average voter (especially those on low income) is the cost of living. Tariffs will raise prices in the shops and hence raise the cost of living.
    This government can't afford to take the long term view if it gets them thrown out of office in the short term.

    Populist governments don't do 'tough love'.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    It's got nothing to do with the EU.

    Whatever happens this Government has to make Brexit look like a success. The only measure of 'success' relevant to the average voter (especially those on low income) is the cost of living. Tariffs will raise prices in the shops and hence raise the cost of living.
    This government can't afford to take the long term view if it gets them thrown out of office in the short term.

    Populist governments don't do 'tough love'.
    My son was on a farm in France last week. They went in the grain store, open doors , rat muck all over the place. He asked what happens to farm inspections and red tractor. "Oh we don't have that here".
    They ignore two metre strips, round the field.
    There are four tanker full loads of milk come in to Holme on Spaulding moor a day from ftance.Iwatched a YouTube of slurry tankers spraying milk over a field in France. The farmers got their price increase. Some years ago I was in France with a party of farmers during a drought year. A government scheme brought thousands of tonnes of straw from the north to help them out.
    I have a friend, editor of a pig magazine visiting Belgium. The farm was just starting to build a sow stall house, years after the ban. They had laid the foundations ten years before, so they were allowed to start it.
    Apparently Makron has promised that 30 million birds will be rehoused from cages to Free range by 2020. No chance.
    Unfair competition?
    Is that way the sausage factory near here uses 42 per cent imported pigmeat?
    incidentally the Black Farmer sells some of them down in the West Country as local!
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    My son was on a farm in France last week. They went in the grain store, open doors , rat muck all over the place. He asked what happens to farm inspections and red tractor. "Oh we don't have that here".
    They ignore two metre strips, round the field.
    There are four tanker full loads of milk come in to Holme on Spaulding moor a day from ftance.Iwatched a YouTube of slurry tankers spraying milk over a field in France. The farmers got their price increase. Some years ago I was in France with a party of farmers during a drought year. A government scheme brought thousands of tonnes of straw from the north to help them out.
    I have a friend, editor of a pig magazine visiting Belgium. The farm was just starting to build a sow stall house, years after the ban. They had laid the foundations ten years before, so they were allowed to start it.
    Apparently Makron has promised that 30 million birds will be rehoused from cages to Free range by 2020. No chance.
    Unfair competition?
    Is that way the sausage factory near here uses 42 per cent imported pigmeat?
    incidentally the Black Farmer sells some of them down in the West Country as local!
    jack caley
    Probably everything you have said is true, but that is not the fault of the EU. If the French can play lip service to the rules so can our government the trouble is they don't and never will. The rules aren't wrong just the policing of them, go by everybody else's interpretation and a whole heap of problems would disappear.

    Over the last 15 years the French farmers are the best friends the UK farmers could have had because their influence has been far greater and beneficial than ours could ever have been

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Probably everything you have said is true, but that is not the fault of the EU. If the French can play lip service to the rules so can our government the trouble is they don't and never will. The rules aren't wrong just the policing of them, go by everybody else's interpretation and a whole heap of problems would disappear.

    Over the last 15 years the French farmers are the best friends the UK farmers could have had because their influence has been far greater and beneficial than ours could ever have been
    I would agree with everything you say.
    The fact is though, we are where we are, and very ulnerable because of their power over us and and our dependence on them ,now so that retalatory tariff tactics would be very inflationary.
    It is ironic really, I went on a trip to France where we shown the effect of dumped exports and protective tariffs, on third world country's.
    Of course French farmers and the CAP have protected our agriculture, but it is very likely we shall find out soon the end of that protection especially when Tony Juniper and his lot start to run the job.
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I would agree with everything you say.
    The fact is though, we are where we are, and very ulnerable because of their power over us and and our dependence on them ,now so that retalatory tariff tactics would be very inflationary.
    It is ironic really, I went on a trip to France where we shown the effect of dumped exports and protective tariffs, on third world country's.
    Of course French farmers and the CAP have protected our agriculture, but it is very likely we shall find out soon the end of that protection especially when Tony Juniper and his lot start to run the job.
    jack caley
    But the logic says if you agree with the previous that the EU don't have the power over us, it is only given to them by proxy because of the way the UK authorities interpret the rules. That was plain to see with the implementation of SPS then BPS, the regime our lot chose was far more stringent than that applied in the rest of the EU. It is therefor the UK authorities that make it look like the EU has power over us. Interpret differently and they wouldn't have.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    That is the trouble, Europe has got a stranglehold on our economy.
    I only mention it in the vain hope that we need something to counter the Welsh lamb problem. You could also involve the BMW VW situation to protect Nissan exports for instance. But as Nissan is a Japanese company, could it avoid tariffs?
    What a mess!
    jack caley
    Actually Nissan is as much a French company as it is tied up with Renault.
    you can be certain that the Sunderland plangent will go and production will move to France and Spain
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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I would agree with everything you say.
    The fact is though, we are where we are, and very ulnerable because of their power over us and and our dependence on them ,now so that retalatory tariff tactics would be very inflationary.
    It is ironic really, I went on a trip to France where we shown the effect of dumped exports and protective tariffs, on third world country's.
    Of course French farmers and the CAP have protected our agriculture, but it is very likely we shall find out soon the end of that protection especially when Tony Juniper and his lot start to run the job.
    jack caley
    but their power will be far more once we are out, Our government could have done far more t5o ensure other countries followed EU rules like the sow stall ban, but they were never interested as our voters did not care.
    once out the EU will carry on their own way regardless and will happily dump on us just as they did before we joined.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    Actually Nissan is as much a French company as it is tied up with Renault.
    you can be certain that the Sunderland plangent will go and production will move to France and Spain
    Probably will go to France you are right, but as in the case of the MG factory, the factory should be taken over, and we keep the workforce on and produce our own cars and do not export the profits. This mania for so called foreign investment in many industries cannot be right. As I look across our field and see 110 wind turbines all taking profit from our consumers for equipment we even leant a good deal of money to build them!
    Same up the road on land where German companies built two other lots of wind turbines, one lot on an airfield where 85 percent of commonwealth aircrew did not return from Germany!
    I appreciate the world moves on but it is somewhat ironic. The Germans even paid for a wonderfull memorial to the aircrew, at Lissette!
    I agree in a lot of all this it is ourselves to blame, but we really should try and do something about it as The UK will continue on its downward spiral.
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    The actual Nissan Plant is not the whole story.....down the road from the plant are a plethora of companies, manufacturing “just in time parts” some of them are actually embedded in the Nissan plant ......Logistics companies....bringing and taking away.
    Business through the local ports....cars exported....parts etc coming in.
    The effect to the extended area will be Nuclear.....think it through.....plenty of people will not be looking to buy any more food than they need....what do we produce? Food.
    Vauxhall....French owned!
    Honda gone!
    LR in effect clearing out.....no matter what they say.
    The EU will grind us into the ground until we crawl back with a begging bowl....
    Fanciful ideas of producing high labour requirement products in this country and exporting them to an unfriendly trading group that is ready and willing to use tariffs to protect their own industries and workforce are nothing more than that Fantasy.

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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    The actual Nissan Plant is not the whole story.....down the road from the plant are a plethora of companies, manufacturing “just in time parts” some of them are actually embedded in the Nissan plant ......Logistics companies....bringing and taking away.
    Business through the local ports....cars exported....parts etc coming in.
    The effect to the extended area will be Nuclear.....think it through.....plenty of people will not be looking to buy any more food than they need....what do we produce? Food.
    Vauxhall....French owned!
    Honda gone!
    LR in effect clearing out.....no matter what they say.
    The EU will grind us into the ground until we crawl back with a begging bowl....
    Fanciful ideas of producing high labour requirement products in this country and exporting them to an unfriendly trading group that is ready and willing to use tariffs to protect their own industries and workforce are nothing more than that Fantasy.
    Actually I was not meaning just trying to sell to Europe, of course they are protectionist, that is why Toyota and Nissan established assembly plants here. But I presume there are exports elsewhere, I may be mistaken. Wherever the cars go, I wonder where the profits go?
    Quite by coincidence, my daughter had bought some Rowntrees fruit pastille from Heron foods. I read the label, which said "they" had been proudly producing these pastille from the recipe produced by Joseph Rowntree some 149 years ago. There was an address in York but The main address was Nestles, Dublin Ireland.
    Not only had Nestles of Switzerland taken the profits from the UK, but they even put them in to Ireland , presumably for less tax!
    It will be sad when Nissan leave, because they have had some economic benefit around Sunderland. One of our ex customers, a struggling pig farmer from there bought a mill mixer from us, he came to see it in a tatty old Mazda car. He was a great fellow we enjoyed dealing with him. My wife and I once delivered some spares to him. He turned up in the farmyard, driving a top of the range Range Rover! He had sold a small farm he owned to Nissan for a golf course, so the directors could come over here to play golf. The amusing part was, he had had the Range Rover a week, but was already grumbling about the amount of petrol it used!
    Funny stories aside, my main point is, one by one we have sold key companies, and wonder why they have bought them!
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    because they have had some economic benefit around Sunderland

    Nissan are the only financial benefit around Sunderland!
    Nothing else comes near in the area......The Blonde lady shoulder high on the announcement of the Brexit result..will have time to reflect after Nissan go.
    If Nissan does have a golf course which I very much doubt...it will be for the entire staff, Nissan are excellent employers....people travel considerable distances to work there.
    Apprenticeships for the youngsters....training in Japan......quite a few from The Sunderland plant have progressed up through the company internationally.
    When it is gone it won’t matter a toss where the profits went....the local economy will be decimated.
    Once we are outside of the EU there will not be a replacement...
    Lunacy!





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    Re: Irish Border

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    because they have had some economic benefit around Sunderland

    Nissan are the only financial benefit around Sunderland!
    Nothing else comes near in the area......The Blonde lady shoulder high on the announcement of the Brexit result..will have time to reflect after Nissan go.
    If Nissan does have a golf course which I very much doubt...it will be for the entire staff, Nissan are excellent employers....people travel considerable distances to work there.
    Apprenticeships for the youngsters....training in Japan......quite a few from The Sunderland plant have progressed up through the company internationally.
    When it is gone it won’t matter a toss where the profits went....the local economy will be decimated.
    Once we are outside of the EU there will not be a replacement...
    Lunacy!




    just for the record, the chap who sold the farm to Nissan was called Bill Shields, just confirmed with my son who now lives in Spain.
    jack caley

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    Re: Irish Border

    No doubt I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but as far as I am aware the closure of car plants in this country has nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with 'climate change',because of the blinkered 'environmentalists' this country is being led by the nose into going down the electric car route, Nissan and the rest aren't geared up to the manufacture of electric cars and we all know that if there is no demand for what you produce you either change,go bankrupt or do a runner

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