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Thread: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

  1. #1
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    Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    How keen are you to lock land up as woodland and other habitats, and why?

    I am a PhD student running an online survey which investigates how keen farmers are to create woodland, scrub and wet grassland compared to smaller-scale on-farm changes. You'll be asked about some of the reasons why you liked and disliked different options, and the survey explores different area requirements and timescales for options. The results will be used to make policy recommendations for future ELMS. Please do consider taking part, you can skip any questions you dont want to answer - it will make you enter a postcode but partial postcodes are fine. Follow this link to find out more and to participate https://cambridge.eu.qualtrics.com/j...7w7CIWNYOmdQYR

    Do get in touch if you have any questions, lc591@cam.ac.uk

    Thank you!
    Lydia

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by lydcol View Post
    How keen are you to lock land up as woodland and other habitats, and why?

    I am a PhD student running an online survey which investigates how keen farmers are to create woodland, scrub and wet grassland compared to smaller-scale on-farm changes. You'll be asked about some of the reasons why you liked and disliked different options, and the survey explores different area requirements and timescales for options. The results will be used to make policy recommendations for future ELMS. Please do consider taking part, you can skip any questions you dont want to answer - it will make you enter a postcode but partial postcodes are fine. Follow this link to find out more and to participate https://cambridge.eu.qualtrics.com/j...7w7CIWNYOmdQYR

    Do get in touch if you have any questions, lc591@cam.ac.uk

    Thank you!
    Lydia
    I have had a quick look through this survey, but not completed it yet, if ever! I would ask other forum members to look through it and please comment on the forum as to what action , if any they might take.
    My immediate knee jerk reaction is very negative.
    If these proposals have any official basis they demonstrate clearly that the whole idea of CAP/payments reform is clearly not understood, it is merely an acceptance of the environmental argument, not the economic one.
    Basically those who would reform have to answer the question, do they need farmers?
    Have I wasted my life producing food for a grateful nation?
    I started life in agriculture, as a farmers son, then as a Min of Ag officer, investing money, effort and science in to food production for a hungry nation.
    Do we really envisage turning fertile land in to scrub, so that we can import more food from the Amazon rainforest?
    Will the proposed remuneration replace CAP payments?
    Answers please on a fag packet.
    jack caley

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    If you are suffering from insomnia.....or conversely having difficulty stay awake ...try this one for a read.
    Bear in mind it was written some time ago....but is still very relevant.

    https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...-programme.pdf

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    If you are suffering from insomnia.....or conversely having difficulty stay awake ...try this one for a read.
    Bear in mind it was written some time ago....but is still very relevant.

    https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...-programme.pdf
    Hmm.. 42% of UK farms would be unprofitable without subsidy.

    Why is that so? What are the key production costs?

    JV
    Agtronix - the home of the Weedswiper

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by john maddock View Post
    Hmm.. 42% of UK farms would be unprofitable without subsidy.

    Why is that so? What are the key production costs?

    JV
    The key production costs are fixed and unavoidable.
    What is variable in the costs and returns scenario is the Inevitable downward movement of commodity and food returns.
    You could say it is poor marketing, and also the end of market support, which the industry lost when we lost production related support.
    The so called CAP. Reform which resulted in land based subsidy payments was a disaster! However I do believe a lot of smaller farmers have taken steps to cope with this. For larger acreage units it was a license to print money, maybe now they will survive on economies of scale.
    Believe it or not, I have taken the time to read a good lot of the EMLs posting by Gee, and I consider most of the main thrust of that reform is an insult to Farmers, especially the productivity insult.
    My lifetime has seen farmers respond to the need to produce food cheaply, in response to market pressure, a concept that those like Gove and the environmentalists will never understand.
    jack caley

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    From Jacks post.....
    “and I consider most of the main thrust of that reform is an insult to Farmers, especially the productivity insult.”
    Spot on Jack!
    If the rest of UK Business had achieved the same increase in productivity in the last 50 years as Agriculture...the country might have been getting somewhere.
    Broadly speaking our output commodities prices received are similar to a decade or two ago, perhaps even longer.

    Came to conclusion this afternoon that a very poor boggy wet farm in an upland area, above an area that is extremely prone to flooding, that is the location of a good scene of recently built expensive houses on the local flood plain....You know the type....The Meadows etc.
    Dam good reason for the name of the area.

    Back to subject such a farm would probably be a pretty good investment.....no stock or at least only enough to give the illusion of actually farming......buy an excavator and wait.
    Farmers to be paid for holding water back in times of deluge.....get the excavator out, knock a few scrapes out, block up some surface drains....count the wildlife......and bank the money.
    Document to me demonstrates an awful lot of knowledge about “statistics” and “bugger all” about farming.

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    From Jacks post.....
    “and I consider most of the main thrust of that reform is an insult to Farmers, especially the productivity insult.”
    Spot on Jack!
    If the rest of UK Business had achieved the same increase in productivity in the last 50 years as Agriculture...the country might have been getting somewhere.
    Broadly speaking our output commodities prices received are similar to a decade or two ago, perhaps even longer.

    Came to conclusion this afternoon that a very poor boggy wet farm in an upland area, above an area that is extremely prone to flooding, that is the location of a good scene of recently built expensive houses on the local flood plain....You know the type....The Meadows etc.
    Dam good reason for the name of the area.

    Back to subject such a farm would probably be a pretty good investment.....no stock or at least only enough to give the illusion of actually farming......buy an excavator and wait.
    Farmers to be paid for holding water back in times of deluge.....get the excavator out, knock a few scrapes out, block up some surface drains....count the wildlife......and bank the money.
    Document to me demonstrates an awful lot of knowledge about “statistics” and “bugger all” about farming.
    I did read a most of that audit report, interesting!
    A real exercise in government!
    One of the main persons quoted was a Dame Glenys Stacey, a solicitor used in regulation in various departments, especially education. Presumably that is where Gove must have come across her. Obviously a very able and competent woman, involved in bureaucracy. I did listen to her on desert island discs, outlining her methods. However I do think this whole CAP reform thing is a very fundamental and complex change in an industry, and I do have a vague suspicion there was very little consultation with the industry itself, mostly with environmentalists and public access pressure groups. Very little understanding of economics and food security.
    I think the industry is in for a period of change brought about by people with very little knowledge of the industry.
    jack caley

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    Re: Future ELMS - arable farmers opinions wanted

    Those that can .........Do
    Those that can’t .......Tell others how to do it..

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