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Thread: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

  1. #1
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    JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Hoping the BFF Brains Trust can help, and as is sometimes the case, what seems to be a simple problem might have an alternative solution. I'll tell the long story, coz sometimes the long way around is the quickest way home.

    A used machine, (I understadn a JZ140 is a JZ130 with a blade attached) bought a couple of years ago, 9k hrs, from a reputable hire company (so presumably it was well serviced). When I was last using it several months ago, the engine began to run on when the key was switched off. It was common that I would also have to use the emergency stop button. The engine would almost stop, then pick up a few revs, then almost stop again, repeatedly. An intermittent fault which did not always occur. I would stop it by manually pulling the stop solenoid cable.

    Move on a few months, and one battery died several months ago. Hooked up the one good battery to keep the display memory alive until the second battery was installed today. Meantime, I looked at the stop solenoid and noted some clean threads on the bolt anchoring it to the frame, so I assumed the solenoid had moved enough that it did not pull the pump stop lever far enough.

    Today, the engine started instantly, as normal, but ran only at the almost-stopped speed. The electronic throttle would not work, and the display showed the error code "108 flywheel".

    I found the flywheel sensor, disconnected and reconnected it, ensuring the two parts were fully connected. It made no difference.

    I'm guessing that hte problem is analogue, not digital i.e. intermittent (but now continuous) loss of signal, not a computer or software problem.

    I'm assuming the solenoid is not the problem, coz it now in evidence at start-up, not just at shutdown, so I'm hoping someone can point me to a list of error codes. The service manual says nowt, and the parts book simply lists the engine speed sensor as a spare part (which is an eye-watering price!).

    On that latter comment, I presume it is a generic sensor, used widely on the Isuzu engine fitted, so an Isuzu part number could be useful if it is a sensor problem. I have *no* experience with flywheel sensors!

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    On further thought, is the flywheel sensor simply reporting that the engine is turning over at too slow a speed (for whatever reason) or is it controlling that speed by having failed, or has something else failed preventing the electronic throtle operating? Maybe I'll try manually moving the throttle arm on the injector pump tomorrow.

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by john maddock View Post
    On further thought, is the flywheel sensor simply reporting that the engine is turning over at too slow a speed (for whatever reason) or is it controlling that speed by having failed, or has something else failed preventing the electronic throtle operating? Maybe I'll try manually moving the throttle arm on the injector pump tomorrow.

    JV
    Problem solved - I think!

    First, disconnected the flywheel sensor - starter wouldn't operate, so I established that the computer needs a signal.
    Tried wedging the throttle open a bit - cannot move it.

    Then disconnected the sheath of the stop cable, and the stop lever on the pump moved a good 25mm forward. Engine started, throttle control works.

    So... I had already adjusted the solenoid end-stop bolt to the maximum, supposedly allowing more movement of the cable, and there is no adjustment left on the sheath end clamp, so maybe the cable is not running freely in its sheath. I'll try to get the cable assembly vertical & drip some Ballistol down for lubrication.
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by john maddock View Post
    Problem solved - I think!

    First, disconnected the flywheel sensor - starter wouldn't operate, so I established that the computer needs a signal.
    Tried wedging the throttle open a bit - cannot move it.

    Then disconnected the sheath of the stop cable, and the stop lever on the pump moved a good 25mm forward. Engine started, throttle control works.

    So... I had already adjusted the solenoid end-stop bolt to the maximum, supposedly allowing more movement of the cable, and there is no adjustment left on the sheath end clamp, so maybe the cable is not running freely in its sheath. I'll try to get the cable assembly vertical & drip some Ballistol down for lubrication.
    Google says that the error code is -
    The flywheel sensor is reporting an engine speed even though the engine is not running.
    I'm assuming your solenoid is the rack-puller type direct onto the injection pump stop, or via a control cable to the stop lever? First, our 456zx shovel with a cummins power unit has a rack puller and it is very voltage sensitive- the starter will operate when the batteries (24v) are going down but the 1st thing to fail is there isn't enough voltage to hold the puller/solenoid in the run position.

    I'd disconnect the solenoid and see if the engine starts and behaves normally? I think the low speed may not of kicked the alternator into charging- it may affect the dash/controls/ecu from actually working? With the solenoid unhooked (not the loom- just to the stop lever) get the engine running and if alls ok then look into the solenoid and its control cable for adjustment and that sticky cable, then hook it back up to try again.

    The 456zx genuine rack pullers are over 600- Chinese copies are about 10% of that delivered in 10-14 days, we have had 2 chinese ones in 9 years so not too bad a service. When we have had issues with it and been caught out, we leave the puller wired up but have a pull cord on the pump stop lever thats hooked over a convenient point for run, and to stop - simply pull it off the hook!

    Also check your batteries are both ok, and that when up and running the alternator is doing its stuff ok- they can affect all sorts of things from voltage drop to no signal to the rev counter affecting the electronics. Also if you get an odd flat battery(s) a fault in one of the alternators 3 rectifier diodes can flatten a battery while stopped and /or play havoc with charging.
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Google says that the error code is -

    I'm assuming your solenoid is the rack-puller type direct onto the injection pump stop, or via a control cable to the stop lever? First, our 456zx shovel with a cummins power unit has a rack puller and it is very voltage sensitive- the starter will operate when the batteries (24v) are going down but the 1st thing to fail is there isn't enough voltage to hold the puller/solenoid in the run position.

    I'd disconnect the solenoid and see if the engine starts and behaves normally? I think the low speed may not of kicked the alternator into charging- it may affect the dash/controls/ecu from actually working? With the solenoid unhooked (not the loom- just to the stop lever) get the engine running and if alls ok then look into the solenoid and its control cable for adjustment and that sticky cable, then hook it back up to try again.

    The 456zx genuine rack pullers are over 600- Chinese copies are about 10% of that delivered in 10-14 days, we have had 2 chinese ones in 9 years so not too bad a service. When we have had issues with it and been caught out, we leave the puller wired up but have a pull cord on the pump stop lever thats hooked over a convenient point for run, and to stop - simply pull it off the hook!

    Also check your batteries are both ok, and that when up and running the alternator is doing its stuff ok- they can affect all sorts of things from voltage drop to no signal to the rev counter affecting the electronics. Also if you get an odd flat battery(s) a fault in one of the alternators 3 rectifier diodes can flatten a battery while stopped and /or play havoc with charging.
    Thanks FF - good points all, as usual

    The injection pump is an in-line unit, and the solenoid pulls the stop lever via a Bowden type cable about 750 long. Several applications of Ballistol through the day, plus movement, has freed the cable in its sheath. With the cable disconnected from the lever, the engine starts & runs normally.

    It is clear the flywheel sensor is not the problem; it simply reported
    that the flywheel was running slow, so the computer disabled the throttle.

    The problem is that the solenoid is not pulling the engine-stop lever far
    enough. Two possible reasons: one or both adjustments have moved, or the
    cable has stretched e.g. by fraying as a result of binding in its sheath.

    There are two adjustment places, one each side of the solenoid. The outer
    one, at the "back end" of the solenoid, appears to be to limit the travel
    of the solenoid shaft when it is energised. Tother is on the engine side
    and appears to determine how far the stop lever is moved i.e. it shortens or lengthens the cable.

    I've backed the first almost right off, but even so the engine still does
    not quite stop coz the lever is not pulled far enough.

    The other adjustment is a problem, coz although there is maybe 12mm of thread
    available, I cannot undo the locknut on the adjuster partly coz of it's location
    and partly coz I don't have two open enders which fit tightly.

    Normally in that situation I'd look to removing the complete assembly so I could get it in the vice, but
    the idiot in there before me has damaged the slots on the Phillips head
    M8 screws holding the solenoid. And did I mention the need for key-hole surgery skills?

    Your idea of a rope from the stop lever is looking good at the moment!

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Yes, sounds like it the solenoid, either its been set up wrong or its adjustments have moved, or perhaps the solenoid has an internal issue? or is packing up?

    Also can you hook up the solenoid and energise it to see if it can/will hold the stop in the run position? Had them where they will "pull" but only half hearted - give them a bit of assistance on the stop lever and it would run, release the assistance and down it goes or stops.
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Yes, sounds like it the solenoid, either its been set up wrong or its adjustments have moved, or perhaps the solenoid has an internal issue? or is packing up?

    Also can you hook up the solenoid and energise it to see if it can/will hold the stop in the run position? Had them where they will "pull" but only half hearted - give them a bit of assistance on the stop lever and it would run, release the assistance and down it goes or stops.
    More good questions! It *might* be possible to jumper the solenoid from a battery, but it would be a fiddle which might not prove anything.

    I see three wires to the solenoid which I presume allow it to be bi-stable: de-energised in the "stop " position with the spring at its outboard end pulling the pump arm to the "stop" position, while at the same time reporting to the computer that it is present, and second, energised, to allow the pump arm to go to the "run" position coz I can hear a relay clicking when I push it to the extreme "run" position. I might confirm that this morning by observing if the outboard end of the rod which passes right thru the solenoid is clear of the end-stop bolt at "run".

    From the way the solenoid behaves, I think it working correctly, and it's just a matter of adjustment of the distance it has to pull coz as I adjust the end stop bolt, (which assows the whole solenoid assembly to move towards the "stop" position) the engine slows as it is starved of fuel as a result of the pump lever being pulled towards the stop position by the coil spring at the outboard end of the solenoid. Just why the cable should need adjustment when the adjuster and its locknut are so tight is a puzzle, but all the symptoms point to an adjustment problem.

    I can't see enough of the printing on the solenoid body to determine the manufacturer so I can look it up.

    Perseverance required - after I've bought a suitable open ended spanner to fit the adjuster - I think.

    JV
    Last edited by john maddock; 03-01-21 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Clarity
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Yes, sounds like it the solenoid, either its been set up wrong or its adjustments have moved, or perhaps the solenoid has an internal issue? or is packing up?

    Also can you hook up the solenoid and energise it to see if it can/will hold the stop in the run position? Had them where they will "pull" but only half hearted - give them a bit of assistance on the stop lever and it would run, release the assistance and down it goes or stops.
    FF - contemplated your post today as I went about other work, and I think you are correct: I should test the solenoid (It's a Woodward 1756ES).

    The multimeter established that 24v is being supplied and to which terminal, so I'll gather a couple of batteries & some jumpers and try it in a day or two.

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Yes, sounds like it the solenoid, either its been set up wrong or its adjustments have moved, or perhaps the solenoid has an internal issue? or is packing up?

    Also can you hook up the solenoid and energise it to see if it can/will hold the stop in the run position? Had them where they will "pull" but only half hearted - give them a bit of assistance on the stop lever and it would run, release the assistance and down it goes or stops.
    Hey FF, take a bow young man, coz you seem to have fixed the problem by remote control.

    The need to test the solenoid as you suggested has been niggling me all day, until late this arvo I went to the the electronics spares and found a couple of circular terminals which would fit the male pins in the solenoid connector. Supplied 24v from the machines batteries - and the solenoid did nowt. After checking that 24v was present at the terminals and pushing them on a couple of times coz they were a tad big, I was convinced the solenoid was dead.

    Adjusted the engine-stop limit bolt to allow it to start, so I could run it to wet the aircon seals and check that the aircon was ok. While that was happening, I went around the back to re-adjust the engine-stop limit bolt, just for the hell of it - and was astonished to see the rubber boot on the solenoid compressed in the correct "engine-run" position.

    Adjusted the engine-stop limit bolt to where I thought it should be, went back to the cab and turned the key. Nothing. Hit the emergency stop button - and the engine faltered to a stop. Re-adjusted the stop limit bolt and now everything is back to normal - normal that is to the extent that neither the key nor the emergency stop will stop the engine by itself; I need to use both, reason unknown.

    Conclusion: the initial "failure to stop" events a year ago was caused by the stop-limit bolt vibrating forward (despite the lock nut) preventing the solenoid moving the required distance to stop the engine.

    This problem was compounded by non-use during the winter causing the connectors to corrode enough to prevent a good circuit. The pushing on of the jumper connectors (being a poor fit) several times presumably cleaned the pins enough for the solenoid to work.

    As said FF, take a bow. You defeated Murphy from a great distance .

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Well we were heading to this next option which I think would be a good idea still. Send me a picture of the machines serial number ID/plate and I know just the group to ask what the settings would be for the stop solenoid etc, then we shall have that right and be able to see if its all hunky-dory?
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Well we were heading to this next option which I think would be a good idea still. Send me a picture of the machines serial number ID/plate and I know just the group to ask what the settings would be for the stop solenoid etc, then we shall have that right and be able to see if its all hunky-dory?
    A very kind offer, thanks FF. I think I know where to find the serial number, but as I remember, it is not very clear. I'll take a look later.

    JV
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Hi John,

    Some info for you.

    1st, not sure if you can access JCB's online parts there in Taz, but heres the relevant pages-




    I guess number 22 is the stop bolt you were playing with? I assume #10 is the rack puller for the stop?









    And this one shows a hydraulic cylinder operated by the valve block servo- perhaps this gives load/no load based throttle control?









    Struggled to get any info except this reply -

    He needs to go into the 30sec menu on Ams screen by holding 2 top buttons together, then scroll down to throttle calibration and follow instructions on screen, that will recalibrate the throttle as long as the 3 potentiometers are ok
    I guess your AMS screen is the LCD display screen? and IIRC you disconnected a sensor? maybe its lost it calibration/synchronisation and needs re doing? The mystery is item #9-1 looks to be one sensor- don't know where the other two are!!

    Don't know if any of this is any help?


    Finally, have you ever come across this UK forum?

    http://www.ceforum.co.uk/index.php

    They have a lot of good help on there, maybe they may have more info available?
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Done well, FF, thank you!

    I tried registering for the JCB online parts, but was unable to. The last data field required the "letters/numbers below" to be entered - but I could not scroll to the required security info. to be entered. Not impressed! I have both the service manual and the parts manual, so the online service is not essential.

    You are correct re bolt #22. When I went looking for the solenoid I found it with the locknut about 10mm clear of the metal bracket. I don't know if the locknut moved or the bolt moved, but adjusting the bolt has cured the problem of the engine not stopping.

    You are also correct re the valve block & solenoid arrangement. It controls engine speed under load/no load somehow.

    As you surmise the AMS screen is the LCD screen for the computer. (I've forgotten what AMS stands for).Way more functions than I expect I'll ever need! I'll try the routine your man suggests in a day or two when I can steal some time to experiment.

    The sensor I disconnected was the flywheel sensor, (immediately re-connected) but I have no reason to think it had failed. The AMS screen simply said "low engine speed" with the error code or something like that; I think the sensor was simply reporting accurately. I assume it is one of the three sensors mentioned.

    I've looked at the CE forum in the past , just browsing, and had forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder, and thanks also for the info you have found.

    JV
    Last edited by john maddock; 24-01-21 at 02:28 AM. Reason: Clarity
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    Re: JCB JZ140 engine error codes

    Sounds like the flywheel sensor was only telling the truth in that it was running at low rpm for some reason and that had to be the stop bolt allowing the revs to drop!

    I used to be registered for the jcb parts site but seeing as it had to be thru the local construction dealer who I don't really use as they won't do discount unlike a local Ag dealer with a JCB franchise who does. Since a revamp with the JCB parts site I just fire the 7digit serial number in the search box and away we go although I always email or call the dealer who checks the parts are right for the serial number as well as checking updated part numbers/supercessions and then if its wrong it their problem . They are very good because we can get parts on a 3day stock order so there can be a 10-15% discount if you can wait.
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