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Thread: TX64 Plus - still down on power

  1. #1
    Jonathan
    Guest

    TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Evening all

    Some of you may recall I raised the issue of our underpowered TX64Plus a few years back and I was grateful for the responses given. Following various bits of advice we have

    1. Had new injectors fitted
    2. had the pump taken off and taken away to be checked and put to max setting
    3. Put on a new filter housing (small crack in it)
    4. Changed the spring that keeps the pressure up (so i am told)
    5. Patted it, cleaned it and told it we really value it and not to worry about performance anxiety.
    6. Put wider wheels on it so it does not sink

    It's made bugger all difference - 2.4km/hour in winter barley and hardly keep the drum at 970rpm - can't even go fast enough to lob it over the back. Last year was a bit better, but then again the crops were, shall we say "thinner" for want of an understatement.

    The cut is 20ft so we have tried taking a 15ft cut and it makes little difference. We are not running the chopper yet, which is a worry and the barley straw is in lovely condition so should not give it indigestion.

    I think back to the 8070, you coudl hurl it over the back and go like the clappers and then engine never died and that was a 15ft cut and 20 years old.


    It does not belch out black smoke and it does not surge, it just dies as you put it into the crop and comes back to life when you come out at the end. heaven help you if the dew comes down or you think about unloading on the move. Thank god we are flat here!

    APH don't seem to know what it could be, our trusted service mechanic cannot figure it out, our local engineer who sorted the injectors and pump is confused. Dad and I are worried about what the rape and wheat will be like when we turn the chopper on.

    Do we get a bigger/new (to us but very second hand) engine, do we change the pump? Do we set light to it one cold and dark friday night?

    HELP!

    p.s As i drive a desk, wear garish trousers and tweed for a good amount of my time please understand that I might struggle with anything too scientific, although I can of course pass it on to father who knows about such things.

  2. #2
    AandR
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    I think i has a customer with one of these combines and they were telling me the same sort of thing lack of power they said it turned out to be a cracked intercooler losing the turbo pressure.

  3. #3
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Air filter have you fitted a new 1 even tho it mite look clean, is their a filter in fuel tank or an in line fuel filter is the lift pump clean if 1 is fitted

  4. #4
    Panzer III
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    If you remove the fuel line down by the filter does the fuel rush out, or dribble?

    Our 2nd hand TX66 was underpowered until we twigged there was yellow plastic swarf in the fuel line.

    Failing that I would rig up a small tank and filter up at the engine bay, and plumb it directly into the pump, just to try and eliminate problems on the suction side of the system.

  5. #5
    MrNoo
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by AandR View Post
    I think i has a customer with one of these combines and they were telling me the same sort of thing lack of power they said it turned out to be a cracked intercooler losing the turbo pressure.
    +1, got to be on the turbo side of things, check all pipes, sounds like it`s loosing boost somewhere. We had one and it was fine untill it caught fire!

  6. #6
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    As A&R . Presumably the boost aneroid has been checked and applying pressure to it actually ups the fuelling?

    There is plenty of pressure & flow delivered to the inj pump by the pre-pump(s)?

    Hook up a boost gauge - under load look for at a guess 10psi+ .

    The lack of any black smoke at all suggests you still are not getting enough fuelling for whatever reason..

  7. #7
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo_1975 View Post
    As A&R . Presumably the boost aneroid has been checked and applying pressure to it actually ups the fuelling?

    There is plenty of pressure & flow delivered to the inj pump by the pre-pump(s)?

    Hook up a boost gauge - under load look for at a guess 10psi+ .

    The lack of any black smoke at all suggests you still are not getting enough fuelling for whatever reason..


    agree with that. Our TX64+ is an animal in conventional crops for our neighbour (circa 3ton barley) although we only have a 17' header for it, even with chopper in thick under-sows with a bit of weed organically, it never suffers on power it just keeps going (they are about 250hp)

  8. #8
    AandR
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Sure my customer was telling me how they used a lenght of steel pipe and layed it cross the top of the rads to bypass the intercooler till they found a new one, it ended up running all season and got fixed in the winter.

    sure it was a TX64 too.

  9. #9
    Jonathan
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Thank you gents - I will pass your thoughts and any others over to our mechanic/engineer and see if we can sort this out over the wet period

    We did try NH and non NH filters - this did make a difference but not much. Did think it might be turbo failure but understood that this would result in belching black smoke everywhere (from experience of it happening on a land rover).

    I will report back

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Fergieman
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Does it start OK after sitting overnight? Some suffered from hairline cracks in the metal fuel lines or olives not quite seated properly.

    Or a turbo/intercooler air pipe not sealed properly. My CX8080 last year blowed of a pipe and lost power but it did put out lots of smoke.

  11. #11
    Bog Man
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    By lack of power does the engine just die when you put it under load ?. Is there a rev counter on the engine or are you relying on the drum rev counter to gauge engine speed.
    A slipping drum or chopper belt will eat power and cause the engine to die it happened the first year we had the 3640 and was attended to by a string of mechanics each who had their own fix for the power loss .An independent mechanic that we use copped it straight away and the combine went from struggling at 3KPH to chucking it out the back at 7KPH. A belt at 85% grip will use three times the power of one at 100% grip . The belt did not heat up or shine by slipping but was able to kill the engine .

  12. #12
    bob k
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    [QUOTE=Panzer III;971393]If you remove the fuel line down by the filter does the fuel rush out, or dribble?

    Our 2nd hand TX66 was underpowered until we twigged there was yellow plastic swarf in the fuel line.

    Failing that I would rig up a small tank and filter up at the engine bay, and plumb it directly into the pump, just to try and eliminate problems on the suction side of the system.[/QUOTE]

    That would be my first port of call, followed by whipping off the lift pump and getting it totally cleaned.

    Although I am amazed profession mechanics cannot find the cause.

  13. #13
    SKIMMER
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    One 2 ocassions with tractors it has being the lift pumps causeing this, even though they seem to be working OK when I have fitted new it has solved the problem,but you have probably already being through this.

  14. #14
    Ad
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Well i'm just repeating what has been said first i would be looking at the boost, i'm unfamiliar with this engine but i assume it has a boost diagram on the injector pump with a small pipe to the inlet manifold check this for cracks & not blocked, check turbo & intercooler pipework for leaks & fit a drum as a tank mentioned previously.

    But to be fair this is basic stuff, i would have expected your mechanic to have done all the above before removing the injectors & pump

  15. #15
    dan9044
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    We had a tractor once that baffled many, turned out to be the electric stopper had unscrewed a bit! driving with the stopper half out, could it be that? we had a TF 78 that blew a crack in the intercooler once halved its hp.

  16. #16
    scunny 1
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Had same thing about 10 years ago dealer didn't no what to do so had to get someone out to check engine he sat on the back while we used it with all his computers conected for about an hour,don't no what he did but what a combine after that.Turned out we was 3rd one that year.

  17. #17
    Jonathan
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by Bog Man View Post
    By lack of power does the engine just die when you put it under load ?. Is there a rev counter on the engine or are you relying on the drum rev counter to gauge engine speed.
    A slipping drum or chopper belt will eat power and cause the engine to die it happened the first year we had the 3640 and was attended to by a string of mechanics each who had their own fix for the power loss .An independent mechanic that we use copped it straight away and the combine went from struggling at 3KPH to chucking it out the back at 7KPH. A belt at 85% grip will use three times the power of one at 100% grip . The belt did not heat up or shine by slipping but was able to kill the engine .
    Engine dies under load, you can hear it and see it on the bar graph and the revs drop and then the drum speed drops to match. Will get the belt checked - thanks

  18. #18
    Jonathan
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Again - thanks for the responses, all going back to trusted mechanic to see what he makes of it, although my trust is starting to wane slightly as to date none of the issues raised by your good selves seem to have been discussed. We thought the pump was the issue but that has been off, away and checked and tuned up to max capacity - hence the mystery.

    Can anyone recommend someone in the Suffolk/Norfolk or possibly further if they really know these engines?

    Thanks

  19. #19
    Hesston4860s
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    There's a chap works for a dealers near me really knows his stuff on NH combines been working on them since the early 80's, but I would doubt they will travel that far unfortunately.

  20. #20
    Panzer III
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    It sounds like you need to give your dealer / Doe's a ring and ask for their most experienced combine mechanic. Pray they don't send out a green YTS lad.

    Whether your man should be there or not is up to debate. The new mechanic can have his judgement clouded by taking the word of the previous mechanic as gospel.

  21. #21
    F8340
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    inside collapsed hose from the intercooler ?

    In the deutz dealer stood a 1 season old topliner at the time, engine struggled with the littlest incline, when goiing in to crop nearly die. At a point they had a new engine besides it getting ready to swap. But a mechanic from deutz themselves that brought the engine sourced it down to an inwards collapsed hose or pipe

    You couldnt see anything when you looked at the hose , you could look right trough it , but when under load the inner lining collapsed.

  22. #22
    Exfarmer
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Again - thanks for the responses, all going back to trusted mechanic to see what he makes of it, although my trust is starting to wane slightly as to date none of the issues raised by your good selves seem to have been discussed. We thought the pump was the issue but that has been off, away and checked and tuned up to max capacity - hence the mystery.

    Can anyone recommend someone in the Suffolk/Norfolk or possibly further if they really know these engines?

    Thanks
    I assume you are already talking to Does
    I suspect they will be the only ones with the diagnostic equipment
    The other people to ask if you are not far from East Harling is South Farm engineering who can sort nearly anything

  23. #23
    Jonathan
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    I assume you are already talking to Does
    I suspect they will be the only ones with the diagnostic equipment
    The other people to ask if you are not far from East Harling is South Farm engineering who can sort nearly anything
    Dealing with local engineer who oversaw injector changes and sent the pump away to be serviced. Combine is looked after in every other way by ex Bloomfields man so no relationship with Does - but that looks like it is about to change. Tricky balance as want to give usual guys the chance to get it right but the time has come to ask them to step aside, which has to be done with care so as not to damage the ongoing relationship.

    At least it's wet so we have the chance to try and sort this - the idea of 2.5km/hr in barley translating into abotu 1.8km/hr in wheat - with a catchy harvest is enough to cause grey hairs.

  24. #24
    srrc
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by F8340 View Post
    inside collapsed hose from the intercooler ?

    In the deutz dealer stood a 1 season old topliner at the time, engine struggled with the littlest incline, when goiing in to crop nearly die. At a point they had a new engine besides it getting ready to swap. But a mechanic from deutz themselves that brought the engine sourced it down to an inwards collapsed hose or pipe

    You couldnt see anything when you looked at the hose , you could look right trough it , but when under load the inner lining collapsed.

    I've had the above too!
    It's normally something simple.

  25. #25
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by srrc View Post
    I've had the above too!
    It's normally something simple.


    wouldn't cost the OP a lot to take the inter cooler off himself and just renew the hoses, I'm sure they won't be mega money from APH.

  26. #26
    powerontheland
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Sounds like fuel starvation to me, is there a pencil filter on the tank outlet??? If it has a mechanical lift pump there could be a filter in the guts of it, if its electric fuel pump is it working?? If it was boost or a pipe sucking in it would smoke like buggery and since how the fueling has been set to maximum and you havent stated that it smokes to hell, then I would start with fuel!!

  27. #27
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by powerontheland View Post
    Sounds like fuel starvation to me, is there a pencil filter on the tank outlet??? If it has a mechanical lift pump there could be a filter in the guts of it, if its electric fuel pump is it working?? If it was boost or a pipe sucking in it would smoke like buggery and since how the fueling has been set to maximum and you havent stated that it smokes to hell, then I would start with fuel!!


    good test would first be to undo the pipework after the lower tap on the fuel tank and check it pours out correctly, and then undo the pipe after the lift pump before the injector pump and have someone turn the engine over and make sure the lift pump is pumping plenty of fuel out at a fair pace.

  28. #28
    Ad
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Just out of interest is this your engine? I found this pic on internet.


  29. #29
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    That's a TX 6X engine yes, looks like it has manual throttle though, a 64+ has electric throttle. unless that's the actuator hiding behind the step which it could be, I don't memorise our engine that much on ours!

  30. #30
    MrNoo
    Guest

    Re: TX64 Plus - still down on power

    Quote Originally Posted by powerontheland View Post
    If it was boost or a pipe sucking in it would smoke like buggery and since how the fueling has been set to maximum and you havent stated that it smokes to hell, then I would start with fuel!!
    If no boost it would not chuck the extra fuel in, no extra fuel so no smoke.

    Yes that`s the same as we have in TX65+ as above ours has elec throttle

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