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Thread: EGR - remapping

  1. #1
    Tree mover
    Guest

    EGR - remapping

    I apologies for the swear words in the title, but needs must.

    I know I have not been a fan of chipping for power, but having my own egr woes I'm know looking at all my options.

    I believe a great deal of machines know are being remapped for various reasons, but I just want to look at the egr issue and re-mapping as a solution.

    I'm told this is not a remap for power, but to alter injection timing to run in a simplier and more effective manner that the manufacturers dont due to emmissions. This will result in more power, better fuel economy as the engine works in a 'better' way. Uncertain if blanking or removal with occur of the valve, but Im sure something has to be removed?

    In my case, the only egr trouble is with the landcruiser; and there are so many stories out there how to solve it, blank this, blank that, I would just like to open the topic up and dig a little deeper?

    I hear on tractors, many are now, being remapped at dealer level, even though few will admit here; but customers will not buy unless these issues with the negative aspects of tiers are dealt with.

    But what I just cannot understand, is how some makes and models seem to work flawlessly with egr's and some are terrible?

    Case in point is my landcruiser which is a well known problem often discussed on toyota owners forum; and also among peugeot 407's. We have a isuzu trooper and no bother.

    I see on here many having issues with JD egr valves in 20 and 30 series.

    Is it a case of faulty egr valves, or just down to the vast difference in applications and driver habits causing certain makes and models to fail?

  2. #2
    marco
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree mover View Post
    I apologies for the swear words in the title, but needs must.

    I know I have not been a fan of chipping for power, but having my own egr woes I'm know looking at all my options.

    I believe a great deal of machines know are being remapped for various reasons, but I just want to look at the egr issue and re-mapping as a solution.

    I'm told this is not a remap for power, but to alter injection timing to run in a simplier and more effective manner that the manufacturers dont due to emmissions. This will result in more power, better fuel economy as the engine works in a 'better' way. Uncertain if blanking or removal with occur of the valve, but Im sure something has to be removed?

    In my case, the only egr trouble is with the landcruiser; and there are so many stories out there how to solve it, blank this, blank that, I would just like to open the topic up and dig a little deeper?

    I hear on tractors, many are now, being remapped at dealer level, even though few will admit here; but customers will not buy unless these issues with the negative aspects of tiers are dealt with.

    But what I just cannot understand, is how some makes and models seem to work flawlessly with egr's and some are terrible?

    Case in point is my landcruiser which is a well known problem often discussed on toyota owners forum; and also among peugeot 407's. We have a isuzu trooper and no bother.

    I see on here many having issues with JD egr valves in 20 and 30 series.

    Is it a case of faulty egr valves, or just down to the vast difference in applications and driver habits causing certain makes and models to fail?
    your trooper doesn't have an egr valve

    also johndeere 20 series don't have an egr valve.

    Do you know someone who can flash the ecu on your cruiser? If so get it done an let us know how you got on. You've been having problems with the toyota for a few years now?

  3. #3
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by marco View Post
    your trooper doesn't have an egr valve

    also johndeere 20 series don't have an egr valve.

    Do you know someone who can flash the ecu on your cruiser? If so get it done an let us know how you got on. You've been having problems with the toyota for a few years now?
    My 1993 Trooper certainly has an egr valve as does the 95 Nissan Terrano and my 98 Land Cruiser Amazon.
    All D4D Land Cruiser 90 [Colorado] do too but not sure about earlier indirect injection ones but strongly suspect that they do [have egr valve]

    Pretty sure JD 20 series with the 4 valve engine have egr valve also. Not 100% sure though.

  4. #4
    Tree mover
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Everyday I learn a little! My bad with the 20 series.

    I was told the trooper and any road vehicle post 96 had an egr? Shows my lack of knowledge!

    Yeah sadly, my landcruiser is wrecking my head. Toyota say to replace egr but also say that replacement may have similar woes after 2 months!! Not exactly encouraging me to swap egr and pay for privilege!

    But like all things, takes me ages to sort stuff. This remapping isn't cheap, especially if it doesn't work, and I don't want to go down this road if it doesn't solve my egr issues.

  5. #5
    marco
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    My 1993 Trooper certainly has an egr valve as does the 95 Nissan Terrano and my 98 Land Cruiser Amazon.
    All D4D Land Cruiser 90 [Colorado] do too but not sure about earlier indirect injection ones but strongly suspect that they do [have egr valve]

    Pretty sure JD 20 series with the 4 valve engine have egr valve also. Not 100% sure though.
    we've a 6820 cr engined, didn't think it has an egr.

    we've also a 96 trooper and can honestly say i would have bet a small fortune it didn't have an egr.

    hey ho you live and learn.

  6. #6
    marco
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Can it all be down to diesel quality? I know some of the fuel stations around aren't too trust worthy.

    drew do you have your own white tank?

  7. #7
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree mover View Post
    Everyday I learn a little! My bad with the 20 series.

    I was told the trooper and any road vehicle post 96 had an egr? Shows my lack of knowledge!

    Yeah sadly, my landcruiser is wrecking my head. Toyota say to replace egr but also say that replacement may have similar woes after 2 months!! Not exactly encouraging me to swap egr and pay for privilege!

    But like all things, takes me ages to sort stuff. This remapping isn't cheap, especially if it doesn't work, and I don't want to go down this road if it doesn't solve my egr issues.
    Sorted both my Land Cruiser [Amazon 4.2, not that it was ever problematic and neither was the Trooper] and Trooper out by simply removing the capillary tubes that control the egr valves at the valve end [and the exhaust valve at the engine end in the case of the Trooper] and bending the capillary back tight in order to seal it and tying off close to the bend with small cable ties. It is that simple.

    It might not be that simple with the D4D engine. Or it might just be. Make sure that your egr valve is closed, not stuck open, before you do this. The worse that can happen is that it throws error codes and/or goes immediately into limp-home mode [if it has such a mode]. If the egr valve has a sensor on it, which it might do on a D4D, then it will go into an error, and then you need a functioning valve with a blanking plate to kid it that it is doing something. Or you could re-map it to kid it so no errors are detected when the valve is disabled.

  8. #8
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by marco View Post
    we've a 6820 cr engined, didn't think it has an egr.

    we've also a 96 trooper and can honestly say i would have bet a small fortune it didn't have an egr.

    hey ho you live and learn.
    If it is a 3.1 then it certainly has. The 3.0 almost certainly has because I can't think of any such engine that didn't by 96 with even LR introducing it on later 300TDi engines around that time [earlier 300tdi engines were not fitted with erg].

  9. #9
    Tree mover
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by marco View Post
    Can it all be down to diesel quality? I know some of the fuel stations around aren't too trust worthy.

    drew do you have your own white tank?
    Not since 2000, as it got nicked. Yeah since the customs raid last year, certainly makes you wonder, but I do my homework on who I buy from.

    In my case Mark, even toyota themselves admit that this egr stuff is messy, as it can cause premature engine wear by 20%.

    I'm at that point where I have to shell out for a new egr valve and fit it; or improve the exhaust gas system.

    I have cleaned the egr valve several times and it does make an improvement, but its looking like every 6000km it needs doing, and even then, it still sticks like a bitch.

    Its such a pity- as otherwise, its fine. My neighbour remapped and blanked his 407 last week.

    Our cheese maker sold his 407 after a year of trouble with his 407 with 2 egr valves, SPF unit giving no end of grief.

    Theres a great deal to be said for simplicity!

  10. #10
    AandR
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Kind of on the same subject, but i was reading the other week about a duetz engine and they had internal EGR. Done via the valves in the engine some how, i would have thought that would be a much better/less problematic way than an external EGR valve.

  11. #11
    Profi Farmer
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    TM

    It seems EGR valves soot up quickly when the engine is either not being worked hard enough or for long enough. They can be removed just like a DPF and there are firms who will then wipe the error codes when doing so which is a slightly different ball game than chipping/remapping for better performance/economy. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

  12. #12
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by AandR View Post
    Kind of on the same subject, but i was reading the other week about a duetz engine and they had internal EGR. Done via the valves in the engine some how, i would have thought that would be a much better/less problematic way than an external EGR valve.
    Internal egr has no extra or indeed any moving parts in most examples. It is a crude system in that there is no real-time or any other control to the system, certainly not in tractor engines. All it means is that the camshaft is set up to not close the exhaust valve until later in the cycle such that the piston decends on the intake stroke and pulls a bit of the exhaust gas back into the cylinder.

    The advantages are as obvious as the disadvantages. In general the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, certainly on small/medium engines generally fitted to most agricultural machinery. It has to be pointed out that the higher the level of egr needed to pass the regulation of the day, the less advantage is gained overall from internal with very high levels of egr best actively controlled through the ecu and variable actuation.

    Best not to have high levels of egr if at all possible though.

  13. #13
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Profi Farmer View Post
    TM

    It seems EGR valves soot up quickly when the engine is either not being worked hard enough or for long enough. They can be removed just like a DPF and there are firms who will then wipe the error codes when doing so which is a slightly different ball game than chipping/remapping for better performance/economy. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.
    If you think egr is troublesome on tractors that are lightly used then wait until you have diesel particulate filters on loader tractors on livestock farms.

    That is even before you consider these things with their second or third owner at 15 years of age.

  14. #14
    michael7740
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Just wondering how the Landcruiser, or any other vehicle with the EGR removed or disabled will get on at the annual test?

  15. #15
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by michael7740 View Post
    Just wondering how the Landcruiser, or any other vehicle with the EGR removed or disabled will get on at the annual test?
    Never had a problem. Land Cruiser just had MOT last week, the third since it has been disabled. The Trooper was disabled fifteen years ago and always sailed through its MOT.

  16. #16
    Tree mover
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    How it passes in current form makes me wonder more? A sticking egr valve kills the engine, youd think you were burning Tyres!

  17. #17
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by michael7740 View Post
    Just wondering how the Landcruiser, or any other vehicle with the EGR removed or disabled will get on at the annual test?
    Particulate matter is the only thing measured, and a disabled EGR will result in less 'smoke'.

    It's only purpose is to lower NOx levels (basically a cooler burn).

  18. #18
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree mover View Post
    How it passes in current form makes me wonder more? A sticking egr valve kills the engine, youd think you were burning Tyres!
    It tends to stick open, therefore allowing exhaust gas to recirculate, that is to re-enter the combustion chamber, constantly. Apart from which the ECU might well be limiting output, depending on the age and type of engine.

  19. #19
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: EGR - remapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo_1975 View Post
    Particulate matter is the only thing measured, and a disabled EGR will result in less 'smoke'.

    It's only purpose is to lower NOx levels (basically a cooler burn).
    Yes. You would think that doing away with the turbo would have the same effect. This would compromise power, fail soot emissions at the MOT and decrease economy though.

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