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Thread: 2nd wheat or winter barley

  1. #1
    wellingtonfarmer1
    Guest

    2nd wheat or winter barley

    we havent grown 2nd wheat or winter barley for years however im thinking of bringing one back in the rotation, the barley will be following wheat......
    which is the most likely to give us the best gm

    thanks

  2. #2
    watfordfrosty
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    usually the opposite to which you eventually choose

  3. #3
    czechmate
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    They are similar and I do both, stretch the osr. 2nd wheat with latitude is about the same as a first wheat but costs more to grow (latitude is dear). Barley is cheaper to grow but a bit less output. I like spreading risk and harvest anyway, you know you will get osr in after barley but the vols are more aggressive ...
    Take your pick really (or both)

  4. #4
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    What soil type are you on?

    What grass weeds do you have?

    Spring malting barley if you can make the grade IMO.

    2nd wheat rarely worked very well for me on clay with resistant blackgrass. Winter barley was even worse as no real graminicide options apart from pre em Liberator & contact material for cleaning out wild oats only. Beware of wheat volunteers in your winter barley unless you plough or get a very good stale seedbed.

    Was looking at moving from a Wheat/Wheat/OSR to a Wheat/OSR/Wheat/Spring linseed or spring beans rotation instead on the heavy clay. The numbers looked the same, it spread the workload & gave a good hit at the blackgrass as long as we could get the spring crop in ok.

    Is a mediocre osr crop 1 year in 3 better than a good 1 in 4 with another poorer performing break 1 in 4 too? So far, my answer has been to stick with the 2 cereals then rape where grasses not a problem.

  5. #5
    Rob Holmes
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Current rotation here is ww/ww/wb/wosr but we're dropping barley due to hassle at harvest.
    2nd wheats have done us well in the past.

    GM's for barley and 2nd wheats are pretty much the same

  6. #6
    czechmate
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Holmes View Post
    Current rotation here is ww/ww/wb/wosr but we're dropping barley due to hassle at harvest.
    2nd wheats have done us well in the past.

    GM's for barley and 2nd wheats are pretty much the same

    The same as myself. Just curious, what hassle does barley cause for harvest? My main like of it, is that it spreads harvest!

  7. #7
    Rob Holmes
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    For us, we never know what to set the combine up for? This year i'd always thought the barley would be ready before the osr but, within a week, the osr was ready first, then the barley would be ready immediately after, it would be nice to have a few days to get sorted and set up for wheat instead of messing around with barley.

    Also, we have to dry and move the barley to make room for the wheat.

    I would rather concentrate on wheat and osr.

  8. #8
    tw15
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    We do some 2nd wheat it usually has chickmuck under it and drilled in oct to try to strech the osr rotation a bit . so it is 1st ww 2ww sb osr.

  9. #9
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Quote Originally Posted by czechmate View Post
    The same as myself. Just curious, what hassle does barley cause for harvest? My main like of it, is that it spreads harvest!


    I was thinking the same.

  10. #10
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    We grow wb as a second/third cereal on our lighter land. Barley (winter or spring) is crap on our heavy land, where continuous wheat has done very well. Spring malting barley after beet does well, usually followed by wb.

  11. #11
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Quote Originally Posted by tw15 View Post
    We do some 2nd wheat it usually has chickmuck under it and drilled in oct to try to strech the osr rotation a bit . so it is 1st ww 2ww sb osr.
    Do you have some heavy land for the 2nd wheat? How does it perform for you on the chalk? Do you use a take all seed dressing?

    2nd wheat seemed pretty rare around here. Interesting.

  12. #12
    tw15
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    HI we have one field on clay cap and one on chaulk this year we do have about a hundred acres of clay cap in the middle of the farm .Both fields had chicken muck and cow dung before planting no we didnt have it latitude dressed it has awlays done ok like this i think the extra from the chick muck helps just got to keep within nvz limits .It seems ok as long as we feed it well last years cordial turn in at 3.8 tons acre This year we have jb diago as second wheat and relay and sandiago as firsts .

  13. #13
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Barley, sell the straw too, mucho casho.

  14. #14
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayo View Post
    Barley, sell the straw too, mucho casho.
    Very true, especially around here. Shame about the relatively poor gross margin of winter feed barley even with good straw income. Would Cassata's GM be much different?

    Any issues with following winter barley with spring barley? I do it a bit with stubble turnips for the cattle to outwinter on. The spring barley seems to do better, having had the cows on the land. Cleans the weeds out a treat too.

  15. #15
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Quote Originally Posted by tw15 View Post
    HI we have one field on clay cap and one on chaulk this year we do have about a hundred acres of clay cap in the middle of the farm .Both fields had chicken muck and cow dung before planting no we didnt have it latitude dressed it has awlays done ok like this i think the extra from the chick muck helps just got to keep within nvz limits .It seems ok as long as we feed it well last years cordial turn in at 3.8 tons acre This year we have jb diago as second wheat and relay and sandiago as firsts .
    Fair enough. I'm sure that the muck helps out a lot. Some of my old direct drilling colleagues reckon take-all is less where they have built up a good level of organic matter having done it for years.

    Hope the JB Diego does well. It was my top yielder last year at just under 5 tonnes/acre, albeit on my best land & first wheat only.

  16. #16
    tw15
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    With this chalke downland you have to feed it , even if we take the straw off we leave a high stubble so as not to rob it of everything. In my opinon the plough was the ruin of this downland got to keep it as black on top as you can and get the worms and microbs working organic matter is what makes the differance but it takes time to get it there but in the end when you get a living soil structure it will pay you back. When i see a lot topping rape stubbles and then mixing it in to the top 4 inches it does make me wonder what the hell and why are they trying to make a first class hotel for slugs when over winter they would have of broken down naturaly . Sometimes less is more ! We have to never forget that our soils are our biggest asset and worms work for free .

  17. #17
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: 2nd wheat or winter barley

    Very true.

    We top rape stubbles for 2 reasons:

    1. To enable the combine to cut the pods off only & go a lot faster as a result. I had 975 acres to get over this year with one combine. An extra 3 kph harvesting pays for a lot of topping.
    2. Long straw residues can bung up our Vaderstad Rapid drill if its wet when drilling. Ok, topping IS a luxury & marginal in terms of return but there's nothing worse than having to wade in with a set of discs to chop the mess because the drill blocks up every 5 minutes.
    The worms get fed regardless of straw length & a flat soil surface allows the residual herbicides to work better. No point in the upright stalks intercepting the herbicide which concerns me a bit with long standing straw.

    I didn't think that slugs were an issue on chalk, but looking at the underside of the header each morning when it is parked on the stubble overnight I think that slug pellets are a good investment this year!

    You are right about the worms being our best friend. It saddens me to see the steel destroying them as we rip the ground up. While wheat is 200/t ex farm May 2013 that pays for a lot of diesel & steel and I wouldn't keep my job very long if we lose out on 1 t/acre/year while the soils "convert" to DD.

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