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Thread: I must need my head tested

  1. #1
    Badshot
    Guest

    I must need my head tested

    I am currently making some lovely clods that are going to dry like bricks and need a lot of time and diesel to make them small again. Someone remind me why? At this moment in time I cannot think of a good reason to do more than this field.

  2. #2
    lordbonville
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    I thought that on Saturday before I forced myself to do something more productive and finished drying the rape.

    Still got a whole chunk of land sat waiting to either dry out before cultivating or till I run out of patience

  3. #3
    Deereone
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Badshot View Post
    I am currently making some lovely clods that are going to dry like bricks and need a lot of time and diesel to make them small again. Someone remind me why? At this moment in time I cannot think of a good reason to do more than this field.
    Because if you don't smash it up whilst it's dry, it will rain and make you wish you had.

  4. #4
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Deereone View Post
    Because if you don't smash it up whilst it's dry, it will rain and make you wish you had.
    Not convinced at the minute.

  5. #5
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    cos you've always done it.


    In the Winter when you've got a clear head and the time go and visit five different farmers in different parts of the country with different machines who are direct drilling.

  6. #6
    peasantman
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    If you have ponded (now dry) areas following the wet weather in June, Cranesbill and Marestails that glyphosate won't kill (at safe doses), chaff trails heaving with slugs cos you did not have time to rake them and a carpet of chopped wheat straw ankle deep then you might be very tempted, especially if you are following wheat with oats and can't get the volunteer wheat out of the crop. Stuff like that.

    Every year is different and I am not going to stick to an ideology. I am going to try and do what's right in the present circumstances.

  7. #7
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Ok then,

    The ground is dry on top has been "raked" with my rolls (which works very well I might say)
    Go more than a couple of inches and it's not nice at all, rape stubble going wheat.

    Men in white coats will be arriving soon with all the muttering under my breath that's going on:lolk:

    Don't think I'm going to do the other fields at the minute, doesn't seem right.

    I have seen a lot of DD (or strip till if you prefer) this year and can't see the downside. (should have put in the order there and then).

    Off to the pub now to drown my sorrows.

  8. #8
    strip-till-phil
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    All my rape stubble's are ready to drill with wheat bar a squirt of roundup

  9. #9
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    We are going to let the rape volunteers do our cultivation work...the small plant in the photo has put down roots well over 100mm (in just 10 days) so it is not only improving the soil stucture but it is removing soil moisture and capturing nutrients which would otherwise be leached away...all for free..and cannot be relicated by any cultivation machinery..As for the slugs..at harvest there were literally hundreds but after a couple of passes with our rake we have only managed to find 3/sq.meter...not to say they have all gone...

  10. #10
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by strip-till-phil View Post
    All my rape stubble's are ready to drill with wheat bar a squirt of roundup
    Smart arse:lolk:

  11. #11
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    We are going to let the rape volunteers do our cultivation work...the small plant in the photo has put down roots well over 100mm (in just 10 days) so it is not only improving the soil stucture but it is removing soil moisture and capturing nutrients which would otherwise be leached away...all for free..and cannot be relicated by any cultivation machinery..As for the slugs..at harvest there were literally hundreds but after a couple of passes with our rake we have only managed to find 3/sq.meter...not to say they have all gone...
    I think you are right too Jim, by drilling that'll be just right.

  12. #12
    York
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    We are going to let the rape volunteers do our cultivation work...the small plant in the photo has put down roots well over 100mm (in just 10 days) so it is not only improving the soil stucture but it is removing soil moisture and capturing nutrients which would otherwise be leached away...all for free..and cannot be relicated by any cultivation machinery..As for the slugs..at harvest there were literally hundreds but after a couple of passes with our rake we have only managed to find 3/sq.meter...not to say they have all gone...
    Jim,
    logical thought. but we would have preferred some "grases" either voluntarily or drilled right in after the combine.
    Point is that following crop, wheat in most cases, needs some mycorrhiza and rape doesn't "support" them. so prepare the soil organism for the next main crop.
    Also benefit for a pea oat mix is much more biomass, more nutrient release because of mycorrhiza and better "kill" of the shitted rape & weed seeds.
    And even doing the drilling right in the shadow of the combine with your Kuhn would have given a perfect establishment, my expectation.
    York-Th.

  13. #13
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Jim,
    logical thought. but we would have preferred some "grases" either voluntarily or drilled right in after the combine.
    Point is that following crop, wheat in most cases, needs some mycorrhiza and rape doesn't "support" them. so prepare the soil organism for the next main crop.
    Also benefit for a pea oat mix is much more biomass, more nutrient release because of mycorrhiza and better "kill" of the shitted rape & weed seeds.
    And even doing the drilling right in the shadow of the combine with your Kuhn would have given a perfect establishment, my expectation.
    York-Th.
    and I know someone who can supply a very reasonably priced mix that would be perfect for that job

  14. #14
    brit
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    I had a similar thought, not because of clods but because I was spending as much time mending the discs as useing them. The soil was only just dry enough but in lovely condition, then it struck me that I didn't need new discs (I think Will summed up why I was discing in the first place, although I could give a couple of excuses), but a stubble rake. I can't remember who said it, but " if you learn by your mistkes, I should be a genious by now" comes to mind.

    York I think the word you were looking for was "chitting"

  15. #15
    York
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by brit View Post
    I had a similar thought, not because of clods but because I was spending as much time mending the discs as useing them. The soil was only just dry enough but in lovely condition, then it struck me that I didn't need new discs (I think Will summed up why I was discing in the first place, although I could give a couple of excuses), but a stubble rake. I can't remember who said it, but " if you learn by your mistkes, I should be a genious by now" comes to mind.

    York I think the word you were looking for was "chitting"
    Brit,
    you are right. :-)
    But spell check didn't sound the horn.....
    So for every one which got offended I offer my deepest apologies.
    Or like someone on a mailing list signs his letter sort of like that: "Who finds wrong spellings can keep them. No ownership is claimed..."
    York-Th.

  16. #16
    Seat Right Back
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by brit View Post
    I had a similar thought, not because of clods but because I was spending as much time mending the discs as useing them. The soil was only just dry enough but in lovely condition, then it struck me that I didn't need new discs (I think Will summed up why I was discing in the first place, although I could give a couple of excuses), but a stubble rake. I can't remember who said it, but " if you learn by your mistkes, I should be a genious by now" comes to mind.

    York I think the word you were looking for was "chitting"

    no , no ,no I think York was quite right , most of my rape turned out as he described

    will have to do an update for the Warwickshire stubble stomp but today we have had simon looking at the fields due to be DD this autumn , he thinks that im being a bit optimistic to think that the drill can take out 5 inch combine wheelings ,

  17. #17
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Haven't got that issue here SRB, the rape was good and hardly any wheelings left anywhere so would expect all the drills to cope.

    An update would be interesting when you get time.

    The hill ground is easier working and has gone better today but I am not happy with the marsh ground at all. I am going to hook the drill on tomorrow or the next day and see if it will cope, if it does I'll have my answer.

  18. #18
    WoodenHead
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Badshot View Post
    Ok then,

    The ground is dry on top has been "raked" with my rolls (which works very well I might say)
    Go more than a couple of inches and it's not nice at all, rape stubble going wheat.

    Men in white coats will be arriving soon with all the muttering under my breath that's going on:lolk:

    Don't think I'm going to do the other fields at the minute, doesn't seem right.

    I have seen a lot of DD (or strip till if you prefer) this year and can't see the downside. (should have put in the order there and then).

    Off to the pub now to drown my sorrows.
    As my dad used to say (non-farmer!) - leave it 'till the end of the week then have a couple of days off

    And then get over to the E&O Show

  19. #19
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenHead View Post
    As my dad used to say (non-farmer!) - leave it 'till the end of the week then have a couple of days off

    And then get over to the E&O Show
    I honestly think the best thing would be to leave it till drilling apart from another time or 2 raking it, this ground doesn't improve in a couple of days sadly.

    Never been to the E&O show, is it better than the Heathfield show? I have always thought that was overpriced on the entry for what is there (I also think the Kent county show is a gloryfied bootfair). Miserable bugger aren't I:lolk:

  20. #20
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    We are going to let the rape volunteers do our cultivation work...the small plant in the photo has put down roots well over 100mm (in just 10 days) so it is not only improving the soil stucture but it is removing soil moisture and capturing nutrients which would otherwise be leached away...all for free..and cannot be relicated by any cultivation machinery..As for the slugs..at harvest there were literally hundreds but after a couple of passes with our rake we have only managed to find 3/sq.meter...not to say they have all gone...
    I have planted a bean/maize mix behind rape (on one 2ha field). So we have beans, maize and volunteer osr growing to give diversity. It is growing well apart from maize seed rate seems a little low. We planted spring beans as beans are agressive rooters and maize is a warm season grass which we do not have in our rotation. i will have to take some pictures. If works well then I will do it over whole of rape stubbles next year.

  21. #21
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    I have planted a bean/maize mix behind rape (on one 2ha field). So we have beans, maize and volunteer osr growing to give diversity. It is growing well apart from maize seed rate seems a little low. We planted spring beans as beans are agressive rooters and maize is a warm season grass which we do not have in our rotation. i will have to take some pictures. If works well then I will do it over whole of rape stubbles next year.
    Are you not worried that by putting beans in as a cover crop it is risking disease build up for your winter beans crop next time in the rotation?

  22. #22
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    I have planted a bean/maize mix behind rape (on one 2ha field). So we have beans, maize and volunteer osr growing to give diversity. It is growing well apart from maize seed rate seems a little low. We planted spring beans as beans are agressive rooters and maize is a warm season grass which we do not have in our rotation. i will have to take some pictures. If works well then I will do it over whole of rape stubbles next year.
    Hi Andy

    Was that drilled with the 750a straight behind the combine? What will be planted after the cover crop? Will you spray it off or drill straight in to the "greenery"

    Cheers Tom

  23. #23
    Mr Bean
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    I have planted a bean/maize mix behind rape (on one 2ha field). So we have beans, maize and volunteer osr growing to give diversity. It is growing well apart from maize seed rate seems a little low. We planted spring beans as beans are agressive rooters and maize is a warm season grass which we do not have in our rotation. i will have to take some pictures. If works well then I will do it over whole of rape stubbles next year.
    Sounds a great mix, but with both maize and beans being large seeded, it must be expensive?

    With only 5-6 weeks gap here between rape harvest and sowing wheat, it hardly seems worth trying to get something else going. I like the idea though.

  24. #24
    Barleycorn
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Jim,
    logical thought. but we would have preferred some "grases" either voluntarily or drilled right in after the combine.
    Point is that following crop, wheat in most cases, needs some mycorrhiza and rape doesn't "support" them. so prepare the soil organism for the next main crop.
    Also benefit for a pea oat mix is much more biomass, more nutrient release because of mycorrhiza and better "kill" of the shitted rape & weed seeds.
    And even doing the drilling right in the shadow of the combine with your Kuhn would have given a perfect establishment, my expectation.
    York-Th.
    Interesting about the fungi York. We use a mycorrhiza inoculant seed dressing on our grass seed ( bio-root, from Mike Harrington, http://edaphos.co.uk/index.html). Perhaps it would be worth putting it on the seed for the first wheat after rape?

  25. #25
    York
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    now concerning various comments:
    - just 5-6 weeks, not bother about cover crop: don't be deicived by what you see on the surface. Right, after this relativly short time you see in most cases just a rather little above the surface biomas. But always take the 2nd look with a spade! You will be surprised with the amount of root action and the deepnes of soil penetration.
    Maise - bean mix: Maize is one of the plants with the highest amount of rood exudates = food = energy for the critters in the soil. So the potential is great for soil improvement and releasing of nutrients. We will do on our long term trial field now a elemental analysis of all the minerals in it, be it in the "mother rood" or already available. I would however use some Starter N, mixed with the Seed, to get the Maize growing like mad. worth a trial, with some Ammonium N favourable. Could also be that the carry over of N from the rape crop, which is in most cases more than one thinks, is just that enough.
    mycorhyisa: inoculation is a way to introduce them. But if you don't have the conditions right, so they are fed by energy = root excudates - they will not thrive. Also seed dressing with fungicides seems a little counter productive ...
    Time: we see that 5 to 6 weeks, as described in other postings on BFF, is enough to justify a good cover crop which can cost between 35 to 90 /ha in our area, just the seed. this money is well invested and retained in the next crop rather easy. If you see how the cover crop usage in Germany has exploded the last 3 years, not based on EU subs, but on posetive results by the farmer, when big farms with 3000 ha order cover crop seed for over 1000 ha, and that not only this year but also the 2 previous year, with a increasing area coverd, than does this reaction speak for themselves, or? Same is reported from France, which are some years ahead of us in the usage of Cover crops.
    Cover crop mixes: We see that we needk and get the best results, with multiple species mixes. So a bean - maize mix is for us not divers enough. Also, as both are large seeds you miss some "gap filling" with a small seed which is also lowering cost. :-)
    York-Th.
    p.s. I hope I get my last ingredient for a special 9-species mix to establish my first own rape crop. This year we did 2 t/ha without any chemicals, just N, So the cropping was: seeding, N and combine. I expect, with eliminating the faults we did last time, that we can easily double the yield in this system :-)

  26. #26
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Badshot View Post
    Are you not worried that by putting beans in as a cover crop it is risking disease build up for your winter beans crop next time in the rotation?
    Not when in a mix. All these rotational diseases like fusarium, takeall etc are due to monocropping. Introduce diversity to your cropping and these problems subside. Jill Clapperton explained it well saying that take all etc are very poor competitors in the soil. So if you have diversity and good biology they will not be a problem. We will drill winter wheat straight into the cover crop. Round up either day before or after. Cost: beans out of shed and only half rate of maize so not too bad. Hoping benefits will outweigh cost by a mile. I does make me laugh when people talk about cover crop costs being a problem and then you see their challenger and tillage train going accross their fields. I know which one is cheaper and better!

  27. #27
    WoodenHead
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Badshot View Post
    I honestly think the best thing would be to leave it till drilling apart from another time or 2 raking it, this ground doesn't improve in a couple of days sadly.

    Never been to the E&O show, is it better than the Heathfield show? I have always thought that was overpriced on the entry for what is there (I also think the Kent county show is a gloryfied bootfair). Miserable bugger aren't I:lolk:
    I think it's better than the Kent Show - perhaps because more of our mates get there. Think it's doing its bit in our part of the world.

    Might be bale carting though if it's dry.....

  28. #28
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    Not when in a mix. All these rotational diseases like fusarium, takeall etc are due to monocropping. Introduce diversity to your cropping and these problems subside. Jill Clapperton explained it well saying that take all etc are very poor competitors in the soil. So if you have diversity and good biology they will not be a problem. We will drill winter wheat straight into the cover crop. Round up either day before or after. Cost: beans out of shed and only half rate of maize so not too bad. Hoping benefits will outweigh cost by a mile. I does make me laugh when people talk about cover crop costs being a problem and then you see their challenger and tillage train going accross their fields. I know which one is cheaper and better!
    agreed , but with one addition: plant breeding is designed for tillage and moncropping, not the pioneering work you are undertaking (for which you deserve great credit).

    do we need to revisit selecting for other traits? better, less lazy rooting (like cereal rye), quicker wheat establishment (like barley, less agressively bred)

  29. #29
    York
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    at least s.o. got s.th. out of the tour with Jill ;-) And she will be back in November.
    breeding: Yes, there are differences in how specific varieties cope under this establishment scenario. For us this is ATM of less concern as several things look to be of much higher priority and effecting the "success" rate.
    York-Th.

  30. #30
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: I must need my head tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    Not when in a mix. All these rotational diseases like fusarium, takeall etc are due to monocropping. Introduce diversity to your cropping and these problems subside. Jill Clapperton explained it well saying that take all etc are very poor competitors in the soil. So if you have diversity and good biology they will not be a problem. We will drill winter wheat straight into the cover crop. Round up either day before or after. Cost: beans out of shed and only half rate of maize so not too bad. Hoping benefits will outweigh cost by a mile. I does make me laugh when people talk about cover crop costs being a problem and then you see their challenger and tillage train going accross their fields. I know which one is cheaper and better!
    I hope it does what you hope, I agree entirely about the challenger. You didn't manage to get hold of any sunn hemp to try?

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