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Thread: 2012 lexions

  1. #1
    Clive
    Guest

    2012 lexions

    Well I drove our 750tt for the first time yesterday relief driving for our regular driver

    I have 8 years experience on lexions now, so I know how to drive them and get the best from them I hope and have never had anything but massive praise and respect for their stunning outputs and ease of drive / reliability etc. They truly have always been in a class of their own and way better than any other brands I have driven, demo'ed etc . Praise where praise is due previos 580tt, 580plus tt and 600tt they have been fantastic machines

    So that said it's not lightly that I say this is the worst evolution I have ever driven ! How on earth they have made such a great machine so bad is beyond me ??

    The steering is SOOOOOOO heavy that after 12hrs my arms felt like they were coming out of their sockets - turning circle is similar to a supertanker meaning even with a generous headland that 3pt or 4pt turns are needed ! - previous lexions on tracks flicked around within their own header width with ease so I can only assume Claas new track unit is to blame ?? this is a smaller machine that we are used to so it should be more manoverable not less surely ?? Not only is this hard work but it is killing output

    Hydro lever - calibration is appalling - move it an inch and nothing happens then move it 1mm more and you jerk forward to full speed - resulting constant whiplash is not pleasant and VERY tiring. Don't get me started on that stupid lever that is like playing the accordion ! whoever told them it was ergonomic wants a boot in his arse ! and just for good measure they have turned all the controls around to really confuse but I guess that is something you get used to after a few days

    Then the header, 35ft and it just does not feed like our old one, presenting the crop to the feeder house in a very poor way it really can't be helping output

    Then output - best I saw all day was 30t/hr but 20-25 was more typical, this in a 8t/ha crop of Soltice that was 17-15.5% and certainly ready to harvest so I'm having not of this bollocks excuse that crops are not ready..............it is September afterall ! This is straw walker output I know this is not a 600 but should it really be 25% of what we regularly got in the past

    Sample was poor, losses nice and low being the only good thing I can say about it really

    Laser pilot just does not work - despite wasting time with several attempts at setting up it will function for maybe 2 or 3 runs before becoming useless again - it hasn't worked all season and it's a joke to even describe it as a steering system

    New Cebis is better in some respects but worse in others (mainly navigation) overall it is an improvement though and a few more days familiarity would solve the navigation issues I was having I'm sure

    I got home at midnight feeling like I had done 3 rounds with Tyson - thank god I don't have to drive it today, I'm not fit enough !!! it really is physically very hard with that steering and hydro calibration

    I would swap this machine in a heatbeat for our old 600 back right now

    have we got a lemon are are they all this bad ?? My combine driver has been telling me much of this the last few weeks but to be quite honest I didn't really believe it could be so bad, I'm glad I drove it to see for myself

  2. #2
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    No experience at all with a Lexion, but sounds like the steering could be sorted with attention to the priority valve or pressure adjustment, and the hydro a re-calibration or tweak of the software. It definately shouldnt be all or nothing.

  3. #3
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo_1975 View Post
    No experience at all with a Lexion, but sounds like the steering could be sorted with attention to the priority valve or pressure adjustment, and the hydro a re-calibration or tweak of the software. It definately shouldnt be all or nothing.
    Do you think it might have been a good idea to sort such things when developing the machine ?? ie before you start charging 100's of thousands for them ??

    I can't believe they tested this thing against an older model and thought it was better

    Maybe NH have managed to get a designer in to the Claas team to sabotage them !!

  4. #4
    Enry
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    I hate it when manufacturers change things just for the sake of changing....if something works, why not leave well alone!

  5. #5
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Do you think it might have been a good idea to sort such things when developing the machine ?? ie before you start charging 100's of thousands for them ??

    I can't believe they tested this thing against an older model and thought it was better

    Maybe NH have managed to get a designer in to the Claas team to sabotage them !!
    Perhaps this is only confined to the OP's Lexion that wasnt properly PDI'd ???

  6. #6
    honest john
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Dear Clive and others.
    Steering apart.
    Your are having the same problems i am with the JD 670 ( CTS )
    The straw is hard work to drive though the machine.
    Around me the Straw Walker Machines are moveing faster.
    A contractor pulled out of a field ( same machine as yours ) 750 35ft. 1.5 days later a neighbour with a NH TX 68 was cutting it at 4 to 4.5 kmh.
    First Year i have known a hybred beaten by a walker machine.

    Same with another neighbour NH 880 faster than JD CTS. When normaly would be same speed.
    They have the Combines working apart this year.

  7. #7
    lexion610
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    RE your joystick problems Clive - in CEBIS under the 'gear' icon should be a sub menu where you can change the ferocity of the response to your joystick movement. Have a play there, I would.

    Cheers, Lex.

  8. #8
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by lexion610 View Post
    RE your joystick problems Clive - in CEBIS under the 'gear' icon should be a sub menu where you can change the ferocity of the response to your joystick movement. Have a play there, I would.

    Cheers, Lex.
    Thanks I will take a look at that this afternoon - did ask dealer but no one said this was posible

    How about this stupidly heavy steering with such massive turning circle ?? Any ideas ?

  9. #9
    Proper Job
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    A 10.5m header on a 750 is too big, and i don't care what Claas say, it is not just as simple as slower forward speeds, as this will have an impact on feed. We are on our 3rd 570/750 and all have had 7.5m headers as Montana machines, at times a 9m would be good in spring barley to reduce speeds but would not want 10.5 header in wheat or rape, no way, the feeder housing and related speeds, ie feed rake/table auger would just be wrong. Apart from the dreadful new joystick i think the new 2012 lexions are much better and smoother with the improved hydraulics.

  10. #10
    Alistair_Nelson
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    You would have thought the bigger 35ft header being heavier would make the steering lighter when compared to a 25 / 30ft machine so what the steering must be like in those i dread to think

  11. #11
    MJB
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    We had a 550 a few years ago with really heavy steering. Manns replace the steering valve and hey presto finger tip steering like all the other lexions I've had.

    With regard to the calibration of the hydro I've not had any experience with that but I am always amazed that people spend quarter of a million quid on a machine and think 5 hours at Saxham will teach them everything they need to know.

    If manufacturers put 20 notes in instruction books 90% would be out of date before they were ever discovered!

    Matt

  12. #12
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by MJB View Post
    We had a 550 a few years ago with really heavy steering. Manns replace the steering valve and hey presto finger tip steering like all the other lexions I've had.

    With regard to the calibration of the hydro I've not had any experience with that but I am always amazed that people spend quarter of a million quid on a machine and think 5 hours at Saxham will teach them everything they need to know.

    If manufacturers put 20 notes in instruction books 90% would be out of date before they were ever discovered!

    Matt
    Seems not even the dealer reads them as they were asked about this at the start of season - mechanics blame the Claas tracks vs the old Cat ones

    really you would expect a machine costing so much to do things like steer nicely without having to set it yourself !

    have tried setting in cebis just - whiplash as bad as ever !

  13. #13
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Proper Job View Post
    A 10.5m header on a 750 is too big, and i don't care what Claas say, it is not just as simple as slower forward speeds, as this will have an impact on feed. We are on our 3rd 570/750 and all have had 7.5m headers as Montana machines, at times a 9m would be good in spring barley to reduce speeds but would not want 10.5 header in wheat or rape, no way, the feeder housing and related speeds, ie feed rake/table auger would just be wrong. Apart from the dreadful new joystick i think the new 2012 lexions are much better and smoother with the improved hydraulics.
    maybe if all your crops inconstantly run a 4t plus /ac your right but ours don't and the only way we can get the output from these machines usually is to go wider

    I think the wider issue here is that the 35ft and 40ft headers are an all new design - our old 35ft (belt drive) was fine and fed nicely

  14. #14
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by honest john View Post
    Dear Clive and others.
    Steering apart.
    Your are having the same problems i am with the JD 670 ( CTS )
    The straw is hard work to drive though the machine.
    Around me the Straw Walker Machines are moveing faster.
    A contractor pulled out of a field ( same machine as yours ) 750 35ft. 1.5 days later a neighbour with a NH TX 68 was cutting it at 4 to 4.5 kmh.
    First Year i have known a hybred beaten by a walker machine.

    Same with another neighbour NH 880 faster than JD CTS. When normaly would be same speed.
    They have the Combines working apart this year.
    I agree this is a tough year.....................but 20-30t/hr from a lexion rotary is beyond tough IMO

  15. #15
    Krampeman
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    The slow auger speed kits stops the wrapping. We've gone from 15t/hr to 38t/hr which I think is the machines max output in given conditions. Engine 102% so has nothing more to give.

    Steering is ok on this one but turning circle is crap. If your spot on you can just about turn it back into the next run in 3 headland runs which is 105ft, at speed. Slow down and it's better obviously.

    Laser pilot is working a treat now since MC altered it for us, but you have got 2013 spec laser pilots on a 2012 header as there is no height adjustment. They do only work on straight runs though. Any bends such as meandering headlands and it's clicks out.

    Here's a fact though which Claas won't like, we've done 215 hours and only cut 1015 acres so far! That's a combination of flat osr crops and terrible feeding of wheat prior to the slow auger kit going in.

    All in all I like it though. However I am wondering whether the acres are to much and if next years 760 (750 + more hp + jet stream) would be a better bet.

  16. #16
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I agree this is a tough year.....................but 20-30t/hr from a lexion rotary is beyond tough IMO
    makes our little nh8030 doing 20 ton hour look quite good

  17. #17
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Krampeman View Post
    The slow auger speed kits stops the wrapping. We've gone from 15t/hr to 38t/hr which I think is the machines max output in given conditions. Engine 102% so has nothing more to give.

    Steering is ok on this one but turning circle is crap. If your spot on you can just about turn it back into the next run in 3 headland runs which is 105ft, at speed. Slow down and it's better obviously.

    Laser pilot is working a treat now since MC altered it for us, but you have got 2013 spec laser pilots on a 2012 header as there is no height adjustment. They do only work on straight runs though. Any bends such as meandering headlands and it's clicks out.

    Here's a fact though which Claas won't like, we've done 215 hours and only cut 1015 acres so far! That's a combination of flat osr crops and terrible feeding of wheat prior to the slow auger kit going in.

    All in all I like it though. However I am wondering whether the acres are to much and if next years 760 (750 + more hp + jet stream) would be a better bet.
    we don't have wrapping problem Lee - feed is fine from that point of view

    38t/hr is not good although this is a tough year - I could get that out of a CTS 12 years ago ! - I expected (and was told) that a 750 was at least as good as our original 580 would have been and there is no way that it is, that was a 60t/hr machine

    Output is only half the issue here though - what is really nasty is the way this machine drives, it's so much effort compared to previous models with this whiplash hydro and ship like turning circle heavy steering - it's physically exhausting to drive

    you know how I have always been impressed by Class but they have made a dud this time by comparison to the older machines

  18. #18
    nelson1
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    hi anpoterrier sent you pm

  19. #19
    andy26
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I expected (and was told) that a 750 was at least as good as our original 580 would have been and there is no way that it is, that was a 60t/hr machine
    The drum on a 580 is wider than a 750, where were you expecting the extra output to come from?

    The concave and sieve area is also greater on the 580 than the 750. Surely this is also the most important factor in combine output?

  20. #20
    fergie35
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by andy26 View Post
    The drum on a 580 is wider than a 750, where were you expecting the extra output to come from?

    The concave and sieve area is also greater on the 580 than the 750. Surely this is also the most important factor in combine output?


    surely the supplying dealer should have pointed this out to Clive? if they were speccing it up and knew what Clive wanted, then they should have known all this .

    Heavy steering has to be a valve fault somewhere? or maybe the orbital unit is a dud.

  21. #21
    Ian01
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    What is holding back your output, power, losses?
    Are you chopping straw, is the ground soft, therefore taking more power for hydro?

  22. #22
    Ian01
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by andy26 View Post
    The drum on a 580 is wider than a 750, where were you expecting the extra output to come from?

    The concave and sieve area is also greater on the 580 than the 750. Surely this is also the most important factor in combine output?
    Claas will tell you that the jet stream on the sieves gives higher output because of lower sieve losses and returns. I personally think this is bollocks and there is no replacement for threshing and seperation area.

    Clive just a quick question, why do you say that J.D. should have based the CTS a 6 walker chassis, then buy a rotary lexion based on a 5 walker machine?

    I do agree that output should be better than that though.

  23. #23
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    we don't have wrapping problem Lee - feed is fine from that point of view

    38t/hr is not good although this is a tough year - I could get that out of a CTS 12 years ago ! - I expected (and was told) that a 750 was at least as good as our original 580 would have been and there is no way that it is, that was a 60t/hr machine

    Output is only half the issue here though - what is really nasty is the way this machine drives, it's so much effort compared to previous models with this whiplash hydro and ship like turning circle heavy steering - it's physically exhausting to drive

    you know how I have always been impressed by Class but they have made a dud this time by comparison to the older machines
    With no offence ment but do you have machine in 1st gear or 2nd when in the field ? If I ever forget to change down after been on the road I nearly back in to a ditch or ram header in to a hedge as it is a bit sharp
    Also I have found that my turning circle is not as good as last year due to cutting in on the tracks only the depth of the cleats but it is a lot of traction for the back wheels to shove around

  24. #24
    Robo1
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Well clive i expect you said you wanted nice big back tyres for flotation,well that results in shit turning on 5 walker width rotarys(didnt tell you that did they)35 ft header to big go faster with a 30 ft(should'nt believe there old shit!) standing wheat it will do 45-50 t/h spot in heavy straw crop. i've got a love hate relationship with ours some good some bad,the new cebis is shit,they have seem to have forgoten your out in the field to go combining not f#*k about with that thing! And that bloody foot brake!!

  25. #25
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by agricontract View Post
    With no offence ment but do you have machine in 1st gear or 2nd when in the field ? If I ever forget to change down after been on the road I nearly back in to a ditch or ram header in to a hedge as it is a bit sharp
    Also I have found that my turning circle is not as good as last year due to cutting in on the tracks only the depth of the cleats but it is a lot of traction for the back wheels to shove around
    of course it's not in road gear ! you only get 50% revs in 3rd so I think we might have just blocked up by now if we were in 3rd ! - seriously I know how to drive a lexion, our 600 often at the top end of lexion league on telematics

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo1 View Post
    Well clive i expect you said you wanted nice big back tyres for flotation,well that results in shit turning on 5 walker width rotarys(didnt tell you that did they)35 ft header to big go faster with a 30 ft(should'nt believe there old shit!) standing wheat it will do 45-50 t/h spot in heavy straw crop. i've got a love hate relationship with ours some good some bad,the new cebis is shit,they have seem to have forgoten your out in the field to go combining not f#*k about with that thing! And that bloody foot brake!!
    Tyres are standard as claas spec - Claas said it was a 60t/hr machine and I believed them as we have always got the quoted outputs from previous lexions without a problem 35ft isn't the problem, we don't average 4t plus here so often have to go too fast to get the output from these machines

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian01 View Post
    Claas will tell you that the jet stream on the sieves gives higher output because of lower sieve losses and returns. I personally think this is bollocks and there is no replacement for threshing and seperation area.

    Clive just a quick question, why do you say that J.D. should have based the CTS a 6 walker chassis, then buy a rotary lexion based on a 5 walker machine?

    I do agree that output should be better than that though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian01 View Post
    What is holding back your output, power, losses?
    Are you chopping straw, is the ground soft, therefore taking more power for hydro?
    Output is being held back by power, ground not too bad and not sinking in but yes we are chopping straw. Changed filters (second time in 180hrs) but no better

    I should listen to my own advice as you say - maybe the limit is the 5 walker body but with the quoted power and jet stream etc it really should be better than a 12year old design CTS !!!

    as I keep saying the output is just one gripe and quite possibly down to the year and conditions - the fact that driving it is like fighting a gorilla is quite another !!

  26. #26
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Is yours a 40kph are 460 had 3 gears but 600 only has 2 but drops revs when you turn hydrolics off for on the road never driven a 700

  27. #27
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    Quote Originally Posted by agricontract View Post
    Is yours a 40kph are 460 had 3 gears but 600 only has 2 but drops revs when you turn hydrolics off for on the road never driven a 700
    it has 3 gears - only low revs in 3rd

    not sure of top speed, thankfully haven't had to wrestle that steering down the queens highway !!

  28. #28
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    [QUOTE=Clive;990451]of course it's not in road gear ! you only get 50% revs in 3rd so I think we might have just blocked up by now if we were in 3rd ! - seriously I know how to drive a lexion, our 600 often at the top end of lexion league on telematics



    Tyres are standard as claas spec - Claas said it was a 60t/hr machine and I believed them as we have always got the quoted outputs from previous lexions without a problem 35ft isn't the problem, we don't average 4t plus here so often have to go too fast to get the output from these machines

    ask mr tony gardener about tons an hour quoted they forget for 60ton of grain you put 60ton of straw trough aswel which is 120ton hour

  29. #29
    jfdi
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    No wonder your paying him so much to put up with driving that all day:lolk:










    Sorry, couldn't resist

  30. #30
    cp
    Guest

    Re: 2012 lexions

    May be that was why it was cheaper than the rest
    its missing something.

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