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Thread: Spring barley 'skinning'

  1. #1
    kennyo
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    Spring barley 'skinning'

    Had a load of spring malting barley rejected today with over30% skinned grains. Is this due to my poor combine setting or just the season? Variety was propino

    I know skinning is bad due to weather this year but what actually causes it?

  2. #2
    CORK
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo View Post
    Had a load of spring malting barley rejected today with over30% skinned grains. Is this due to my poor combine setting or just the season? Variety was propino

    I know skinning is bad due to weather this year but what actually causes it?
    Dont think your combine is to blame.

    Some varieties do it more than others - especially when they get weathered.
    Quench was always a demon for it, funnily enough Quench is one of Propinos parents if I remember correctly.....

    Quench was dropped for malting over this very issue - the skins blocking filters in the malting process.

  3. #3
    Crazybull
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Propino has been terrible this year for skinning, from what i have seen it's not a combine thing, its a variety thing.

  4. #4
    Archie
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Just finished my Propino tonight and certainly more skins in it than the Optic. Not such a nice colour either.
    Maybe just one of those varieties prone to it like Chariot and Oxbridge. Pity as it's yielded way above what I was expecting this year.

  5. #5
    Beltbreaker
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Optic has again performed reliably here, its a pity that it is to be dropped from distilling for harvest 2014.

    On the skinning side of things it has been a common problem with most varieties (Optic excluded) Shuffle has skinned badly, Propino seems to be the same, Concerto the 2012 malting barley of choice has skinned as well, from memory Minstrel X Westminster. Further to this Odessey, Chronicle and Overture all have Concerto as a parent.

    On the combine front, modern walker combines have 3 or 4 drums running at different speeds which must hammer the grain more than say the old Senator which was limited to one drum and would chuck stuff off the back if conditions weren't good.

    In fairness as farmers we grow what the market wants (read Diageo the others follow IMO) . The distiller is influenced by a number of aspects the most important is spirit yield followed by processability. If it is slow to produce spirit or blocks filters then the barley is no use to them. There is plenty of demand for the moment so I wonder come January if perhaps there will be a market for 10% skinned grain if not the feed market is bouyant enough

    In the rush to get a barley which has non Glycosidic Nitrile (GN) the breeders have chased this paricular cause (under pressure from the distiller). They have succeeded in doing so and also increased the yields in malting varieties but have perhaps dropped the processability ball (if indeed it is a word). In years gone by with the exception of Oxbridge skinning has not been a problem. Yes we have had issues with screenings, splits, Nitrogen levels, germination (I've probably forgotten something) but not really skinning. Yes the cool wet summer must have had something to do with it but last year Concerto and Shuffle gave cause for concern.

    So what I am really saying is
    • Its not your fault its the distiller for choosing the variety
    • Your not the only one
    • IMO modern combine thrash harder
    • The breeders need to have a re-think and create Scottish climate ready, early, non GN high yielding (t/ha and spirit) varieties oh with export potential.
    • Processability is a word
    • My old man used to go on about Golden Promise my GP is Optic. (it does brackle though )
    Cheers BB

  6. #6
    kennyo
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    BB

    Optic was supposed to be on its last year here but I think that we will be planting again next year.

    Concerto has been skinning but been accepted.

    Rest of propino (only 2 loads) will stay in our shed for a while till we decide what to do with it.

  7. #7
    clover
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Does skinning decrease if you cut the crop when it is "no more than ripe"?

  8. #8
    Archie
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Heard today that WN Lindsay are about to stop buying anything other than Optic because of these skinning problems.

    Apparently Diageo who they supply are considering importing better quality stuff dried down to 12.5% moisture for 225/t.

  9. #9
    culphim78
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    skinning not nearly as bad up here the highest ive heard was 8%

  10. #10
    dan9044
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Concerto was terrible for this also! Have just changed from growing Optic because of its weak straw, may have to go back:/

  11. #11
    Alchemist
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Heard today that WN Lindsay are about to stop buying anything other than Optic because of these skinning problems.

    Apparently Diageo who they supply are considering importing better quality stuff dried down to 12.5% moisture for 225/t.
    Before anybody starts throwing company names around and making such unsubstantiated claims, should you not get the facts? These claims are absolute rubbish, Concerto is well over 50% of the Scottish crop, so if a merchant decided not to buy it what do you think they would fill their sheds with? We are seeing skinning in most varieties due to the season but a large percentage is usable, import of barley will only happen if yields are down and none GN barley is almost impossible to buy elsewhere !

  12. #12
    Hayman
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Surely the grain is being hammered too hard. can just remember father doing malting barley (Pearl?) with a threshing machine. Showed me grains with about 5mm awn on the end. Said if you threshed it any harder it would skin and malsters would reject it.

  13. #13
    Archie
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
    Before anybody starts throwing company names around and making such unsubstantiated claims, should you not get the facts? These claims are absolute rubbish, Concerto is well over 50% of the Scottish crop, so if a merchant decided not to buy it what do you think they would fill their sheds with? We are seeing skinning in most varieties due to the season but a large percentage is usable, import of barley will only happen if yields are down and none GN barley is almost impossible to buy elsewhere !

    Reckon they are well aware that concerto is 50% of the crop which is why they will be looking at other options to ensure they fill their sheds. My information came from a merchant in the trade.

    It was one particular firm he mentioned that was considering importing barley and followed it up by saying that most of the scottish crop would find a home as others will buy up what Diageo aren't in the market for as it is in such short supply.

    Just had word this morning that all my Propino is border line for skins. Taken a second sample but if it is that touch and go I will sell the contracts they were fixed at against at today's price and sell the barley for feed which should be no worse.

    Hayman,
    I Don't think it's a grain being hammered too hard thing but rather a weather/varietal thing.
    Modern varieties such as Concerto and Propino tend to ripen while the head is still upright which allows it to take in far more rain, it then dries out and splits the skin. Older varieties such as optic neck over when ripe and rain runs of them. Downside is the brackling.

  14. #14
    Mr Muck
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    We had a field of concerto cut last week and the sample came back as 18% skinned:cry: everything else has been 5-10%(all sprayed off on same day, cut over a couple days). We put another sample of the 18% stuff in today and it returned as 5% skinned!! so put a 3rd sample in and it was 10%!! 10% is the limit they will take.

  15. #15
    JRE
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Heard today that WN Lindsay are about to stop buying anything other than Optic because of these skinning problems.

    Apparently Diageo who they supply are considering importing better quality stuff dried down to 12.5% moisture for 225/t.
    Was talking to one of Lindsays top men yesterday and he said what you had heard was absolute b****y rubbish. Also he wasnt best pleased to have his firms name put on the internet linked to something that was only hearsay. As Alchemist says, best check your facts first.

  16. #16
    Alchemist
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Reckon they are well aware that concerto is 50% of the crop which is why they will be looking at other options to ensure they fill their sheds. My information came from a merchant in the trade.

    It was one particular firm he mentioned that was considering importing barley and followed it up by saying that most of the scottish crop would find a home as others will buy up what Diageo aren't in the market for as it is in such short supply.

    Just had word this morning that all my Propino is border line for skins. Taken a second sample but if it is that touch and go I will sell the contracts they were fixed at against at today's price and sell the barley for feed which should be no worse.

    Hayman,
    I Don't think it's a grain being hammered too hard thing but rather a weather/varietal thing.
    Modern varieties such as Concerto and Propino tend to ripen while the head is still upright which allows it to take in far more rain, it then dries out and splits the skin. Older varieties such as optic neck over when ripe and rain runs of them. Downside is the brackling.
    Your "information" is wrong, why not pick up the phone and speak to Lindsays ? It worked for me !

  17. #17
    johnny400
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Any prices for whats being paid for Propino, thanks.

  18. #18
    culphim78
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    I only know of 1 company taking propino from Turriff

  19. #19
    Beltbreaker
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Any prices for whats being paid for Propino, thanks.
    Any prices full stop...!!!!!

    I have heard 200+ mentioned but very quietly also heard 176 mentioned with feed at 180++ makes you wonder if thats right its a fair kick in the chops. Any feedback

    Cheers BB

  20. #20
    culphim78
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Been offered a min of malting 200 spot price feed 160

  21. #21
    johnny400
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Quote Originally Posted by culphim78 View Post
    I only know of 1 company taking propino from Turriff
    Who is that? Thanks

    Heard propino for brewing not making much more than feed price and that it probably not worth the hassel.

  22. #22
    culphim78
    Guest

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Scotgrain

  23. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1

    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Has anyone any reports of grain skinning from harvests 2015 and 2016?
    I would be interested to know of any views about variation in skinning among new spring barley varieties.
    Any news of combine settings or grain handling that might increase or reduce the risk of skinning would also be of interest.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Wee Dram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Fife
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    Re: Spring barley 'skinning'

    Hi Steve

    In 2015 we grew Concerto, Odyssey, Momentum and Octavia. They all skinned to one degree or another the best was probably the Odyssey. The concerto skinned badly but the maltsters relaxed the spec so it all went for malting. The Momentum skinned at around 12 to 18% and was rejected but funnily enough the first two loads went in ok before anyone started looking for skinned grains.
    The Octavia was intended for seed so skinning wasn't an issue but when you hand rubbed a sample in the field the corns were skinning so i don't think any settings on the combine would have helped that.
    In 2016 skinning wasn't really an issue with us. They all skinned a bit possibly Concerto worse and Odyssey best but we didn't have any rejections because of it.

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