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Thread: ferric phosphate?

  1. #1
    Willscale
    Guest

    ferric phosphate?

    I thought it was meant to withstand the weather a little? two showers and its all gone (unless slugs ate it all)

    What a waste of money. I think back to more often doses of the cheap stuff beetles or no beetles.

  2. #2
    drummer_bruhaha
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Hi Will

    Metaldehyde pellets will not have any effect on the beetles.

    There are 3 metaldehyde pellet types.......

    dry.......cheap end of the market
    hybrid...dry raw materials put put through a wet process
    wet......better quality pellet

    There are variations on these processess such as TDS, which is a modified wet process. Wet process is best described like making pasta dough, then extruding the majority of the moisture. This ensures a better, more persistent pellet and better able to withstand the climatic conditions.

    The better the pellet quality, the better the slug control.

    Hope this helps, PM me if you want more information.

    Drummer

  3. #3
    RGT
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    is there any spray applied slug repellants on the market also ?

  4. #4
    drummer_bruhaha
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    is there any spray applied slug repellants on the market also ?

    Not any that have been commercially proven. Redigo Deter does "deter" the slug from grain hollowing in wheat and is a useful part of the strategy. Cultural methods i.e. seed bed prep, rolling if possible, rakes etc are vital tools, but are best integrated with chemical control.

    We have to remember that slug pellets are the only pesticide in agriculture (except rat bait) where we apply the pesticide and have attract the target to it. Therefore best efficacy comes from the right choice of "attractant" - in this case the pellet. If you choose the best pellet with the best attractants and best persistency you will get the best efficacy.

    Ain't slug control simple...............

  5. #5
    einstein
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer_bruhaha View Post
    Not any that have been commercially proven. Redigo Deter does "deter" the slug from grain hollowing in wheat and is a useful part of the strategy. Cultural methods i.e. seed bed prep, rolling if possible, rakes etc are vital tools, but are best integrated with chemical control.

    We have to remember that slug pellets are the only pesticide in agriculture (except rat bait) where we apply the pesticide and have attract the target to it. Therefore best efficacy comes from the right choice of "attractant" - in this case the pellet. If you choose the best pellet with the best attractants and best persistency you will get the best efficacy.

    Ain't slug control simple...............

    come on then spill the beans and say which one is best.

  6. #6
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer_bruhaha View Post
    Hi Will

    Metaldehyde pellets will not have any effect on the beetles.


    Drummer
    But what happens to the beetle when it eats the metaldehide poisoned slug.

  7. #7
    autopilot
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I thought it was meant to withstand the weather a little? two showers and its all gone (unless slugs ate it all)

    What a waste of money. I think back to more often doses of the cheap stuff beetles or no beetles.
    One reason why you may think it hasn't worked is that ferric phosphate does not kill the slug immediately. It is slower working and allows the slug time to move away after consuming the poison, therefore you may be more accurate than you think with your observation that the slugs ate it all.

  8. #8
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I thought it was meant to withstand the weather a little? two showers and its all gone (unless slugs ate it all)

    What a waste of money. I think back to more often doses of the cheap stuff beetles or no beetles.
    Hi,


    I believe there has been misleading information over the benefits of ferric phosphate for beneficial slug predators.

    The mode of action is iron poisining. Yet iron phosphate on its own is (correctly marketed as) an environmentally safe product. The iron doesnt break down in the stomach of whatever eats it (including slugs). Iron poisining is no more slug specfic than an anticholinesterase inhibitor.

    There are iron chelators such as EDTA which are not listed (and regulatory wise do not have to be). These acids make the iron digestable (solubization) and do the killing.

    So there you have it, a real loophole!

    I will be using meta.

    Remember the LD50 studies etc involve the (percieved) active ingredient and probably dont include what the chelators bring to the party.

    Field studies have shown far higher earthworm toxicity with iron phosphate based products than met.

  9. #9
    drummer_bruhaha
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonC View Post
    But what happens to the beetle when it eats the metaldehide poisoned slug.

    Hi Simon

    We first have to look at the mode of action of metaldehyde - its primary effect is to destroy the mucus membrane (hence why you see loads of mucus around a slug that has eaten a metaldehyde pellet). The beetles (mainly Carabid) would have to eat an enormous amount of dead slugs to have any little effect on them.

    Drummer

  10. #10
    drummer_bruhaha
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by einstein View Post
    come on then spill the beans and say which one is best.

    The best/modified quality wet process

  11. #11
    devils advocate
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer_bruhaha View Post
    Hi Simon

    We first have to look at the mode of action of metaldehyde - its primary effect is to destroy the mucus membrane (hence why you see loads of mucus around a slug that has eaten a metaldehyde pellet). The beetles (mainly Carabid) would have to eat an enormous amount of dead slugs to have any little effect on them.

    Drummer
    But the beetles might starve to death, therby allowing slug numbers to build up again in a few months time. I've never needed slug pellets on cereals BUT this may be partly due to soil type, although I do have some heavy clay. Use a lot on potatoes & veg though.

  12. #12
    devils advocate
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I thought it was meant to withstand the weather a little? two showers and its all gone (unless slugs ate it all)

    What a waste of money. I think back to more often doses of the cheap stuff beetles or no beetles.
    I thought ferric phosphate was mainly used along side footpaths, water courses (not too sure on that one) but mostly for late season use on leafy veg because it disappears so quickly & does not leave a blue stain on a lettuce leaf for example.

  13. #13
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Will - what brand did you use ? I applied Detrexx ferric phosphate 2 days ago and they still look fine

  14. #14
    drummer_bruhaha
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by devils advocate View Post
    But the beetles might starve to death, therby allowing slug numbers to build up again in a few months time. I've never needed slug pellets on cereals BUT this may be partly due to soil type, although I do have some heavy clay. Use a lot on potatoes & veg though.
    Hi Devil

    I think that may be luck It would be very unusual for beetles for stave to death, the main cause for preditor reduction is mechanical damage.

    Drummer

  15. #15
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Will - what brand did you use ? I applied Detrexx ferric phosphate 2 days ago and they still look fine
    Used Sluxx. At 65 for 20kg I think its too dear for the supposed benefits.

    Better off going on with cheap 20 odd stuff every three days with the showers.

    But this year I decided to drill without pellets in the row with the seed and I think its cost me- back to pellets again I think for the juveniles who din't like coming to the surface as much

  16. #16
    devils advocate
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer_bruhaha View Post
    Hi Devil

    I think that may be luck It would be very unusual for beetles for stave to death, the main cause for preditor reduction is mechanical damage.

    Drummer
    Been lucky since 1983 then. lol

  17. #17
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: ferric phosphate?

    A good quality meta pellet will surely live longer, can be used at a lower rate and will have just as low an impact on the environment? I've seen regel sit in puddles for days without disappearing. It becomes very soft but doesn't disappear.

    The cheaper pellets should really be banned, they seem to break up much more readily, no doubt they are used in far heftier applications, too, because of the lower cost.

    I dare say that given the amount of slugs about and how much pellet will subsequently be used, metaldehyde will end up being banned next year anyway. Then we are left with the rather more pricey methiocarb?

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