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Thread: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

  1. #1
    COWMONGERS
    Guest

    Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Drilling with Case CVX 225 and 4m Vaddy drill working off our own RTK base station signal
    Generally excellent signal only problem we ever have is when drilling with tractor weaving noticeably - have tried numerous recalabrations, adjusted aggressiveness, pgain, etc.
    Accuracy is good with cross tack error under 2cm
    What is the problem?
    Tractor?
    Vaddy drill ?
    Signal?
    HELP!!!

  2. #2
    graybo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Have you got the correct figures for antenna position?

  3. #3
    drifter
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Is the Vaddy a system disc drill, this is usually the case with these drills, nearly impossible to set up on auto steer due to lateral forces steering the drill of its own accord.

  4. #4
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by graybo View Post
    Have you got the correct figures for antenna position?
    That was my thought too.

    How uneven is the ground? I have been spraying off worked land for wheat drilling & despite the right offsets (including antenna height above the ground) the tractor was still weaving a bit. That's JD SF1 with good GPS signal quality but the occasional loss of SF correction signal. By the time that weaving has gone out to the tips of my 30m boom that adds up to a fair bit of yaw.

    Can you adjust the steering sensitivity on the tractor? Try playing around with it. Too sensitive & it will always fight itself. Too insensitive & it will wander from side to side.

    Check your tilt/pitch readings too as you drive along.

    The Vaderstad shouldn't change its offset unless you are on undulating ground & the front discs are varying in depth on the move.

  5. #5
    MrNoo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by drifter View Post
    Is the Vaddy a system disc drill, this is usually the case with these drills, nearly impossible to set up on auto steer due to lateral forces steering the drill of its own accord.
    Not had any problems at all with a system disc, just drilled some Pedders Mix at speeds of up to 17kph and it was fine.
    I kept playing with the sensetivity setting untill it was ok, less seemed better at speed, I think I ended up around 120`ish (on a 750), any less and you get a gentle meander from one side to the other all the way down the swath, trial and error.

  6. #6
    COWMONGERS
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Mr Noo is your Vaddy a old style system disc asa opposed to newer x style which I believe pull straighter?
    I'm sure it's to do with the drill trying to drag the tractor about quite how the hell we get around that I do not know as love the drill but am also committed to using RTK, having just rolled field drilled yesterday there is a distinctive weave that the boys are going to love taking the piss out of during the shooting season!!
    There must be a solution I'll ring Vaserstad tomorrow and see if they have any advice

  7. #7
    hillbill
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    are you slightly crossing the previous opperation eg subsoiler as this will affect it

  8. #8
    graybo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Depending what system you are using you may be able to fit passive steering
    to the drill.

  9. #9
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    find tractor goes in a straight line drill or any other implement just follows as it would without gps unless it steers aswell sort of defeats object realy especial if it takes 2 widths to do a tramline.

  10. #10
    COWMONGERS
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    That sounds expensive?!

  11. #11
    MrNoo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by COWMONGERS View Post
    Mr Noo is your Vaddy a old style system disc asa opposed to newer x style which I believe pull straighter?
    I'm sure it's to do with the drill trying to drag the tractor about quite how the hell we get around that I do not know as love the drill but am also committed to using RTK, having just rolled field drilled yesterday there is a distinctive weave that the boys are going to love taking the piss out of during the shooting season!!
    There must be a solution I'll ring Vaserstad tomorrow and see if they have any advice
    Yes it`s an old one, not with the X pattern front disc set up, it`s 3m so maybe not big enough to push the tractor around? I think I have managed to get it to pull straight after a fair bit of fiddling with the system disc adjustment, I have one side of slightly deeper than t`other (this I did today) on some rape ground destined for WW with the drill empty, I guess it may change with seed in it!!!
    Am running RTK and am sure when drilling the Pedder`s Mix the joins between bouts where not spot on, mainly I believe due to the soil type changing from one end to t`other, will see when it comes up (right by the road too!!!) but I did put in 5cm offset to start but after some digging around and measuring with a tape I put it back to 0cm offset and it seems spot on. I also run with the link arms solid and not in "float"
    Also I cultivate the land the same way as I drill, as someone else mentioned.
    The Vaddy chaps should be able to sort you out (very helpful by all accounts)

  12. #12
    graybo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by COWMONGERS View Post
    That sounds expensive?!
    Like i said, depends what system you are already running.

    You may only need another antenna ,a length of co-ax and
    the dreaded unlock code.

  13. #13
    Hillfarmer
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by COWMONGERS View Post
    Mr Noo is your Vaddy a old style system disc asa opposed to newer x style which I believe pull straighter?
    I'm sure it's to do with the drill trying to drag the tractor about quite how the hell we get around that I do not know as love the drill but am also committed to using RTK, having just rolled field drilled yesterday there is a distinctive weave that the boys are going to love taking the piss out of during the shooting season!!
    There must be a solution I'll ring Vaserstad tomorrow and see if they have any advice
    I am looking forward to seeing that!!

  14. #14
    JB
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Put your diff lock in, it was the only way we could stop ours weaving.

  15. #15
    COWMONGERS
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    UPDATE
    Have now changed disc setup on Vadd drill to X-pattern 300 modification kit and shit job
    Added front weight
    Upped p-gain to 8
    And we now have straight tramlines!!
    Drill is definately pulling far straighter so would recommend doing for anyone with old style setup just try and keep your sense of humour when moving discs around!

  16. #16
    Pennine Ploughing
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by COWMONGERS View Post
    Drilling with Case CVX 225 and 4m Vaddy drill working off our own RTK base station signal
    Generally excellent signal only problem we ever have is when drilling with tractor weaving noticeably - have tried numerous recalabrations, adjusted aggressiveness, pgain, etc.
    Accuracy is good with cross tack error under 2cm
    What is the problem?
    Tractor?
    Vaddy drill ?
    Signal?
    HELP!!!
    a good driver does not need gps
    i cut 7 fields of grass
    with a total of 24 break throughs
    and not one butt
    5 of the fields i had never been in before in my life
    and no gps

  17. #17
    graybo
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennine Ploughing View Post
    a good driver does not need gps
    i cut 7 fields of grass
    with a total of 24 break throughs
    and not one butt
    5 of the fields i had never been in before in my life
    and no gps
    Really ?

    Wow !

    Cool

  18. #18
    Alistair_Nelson
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennine Ploughing View Post
    a good driver does not need gps
    i cut 7 fields of grass
    with a total of 24 break throughs
    and not one butt
    5 of the fields i had never been in before in my life
    and no gps
    Yes but you wouldn't have been taking the maximum breed everytime, got off feeling fresh and been able to read a book whilst doing it!! sadly it is one of those things that once you have tried it you will never want to go back it really hits you when you don't have it for a day after having used it.

    Alistair

  19. #19
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair_Nelson View Post
    Yes but you wouldn't have been taking the maximum breed everytime, got off feeling fresh and been able to read a book whilst doing it!! sadly it is one of those things that once you have tried it you will never want to go back it really hits you when you don't have it for a day after having used it.

    Alistair
    don't agre life was better without it makes life boreing just makes it easy for people to emply muppets instead of skilled people took ours out last year and drilled with out it have less misses and overlaps and trimlines where straighter you canot put any implement to correct working width it always has to be narrower and always loseing signal.

  20. #20
    Alistair_Nelson
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    oh dear doesn't sound it worked for you at all. a few people here were sceptical when we got it but now openly admit they prefer it and certainly make a fus if they can't have it for one reason or another.

    Alistair

  21. #21
    MJB
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anpoterrier View Post
    don't agre life was better without it makes life boreing just makes it easy for people to emply muppets instead of skilled people took ours out last year and drilled with out it have less misses and overlaps and trimlines where straighter you canot put any implement to correct working width it always has to be narrower and always loseing signal.
    Surely the point is to employ the operator's skill in make the machine work at its best not just drive in a straight line. Most machines are on the back of the tractor so anything that allows the operator to concentrate on setting that up rather than staring straight ahead is going to be an improvement.

    GPS auto steering is not perfect but it's bloody good!

    Matt

  22. #22
    peasantman
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    How do these systems cope with creepage on hillsides?

    I don't know much about auto steer etc but I know that when I am driving to a bout marker I have to drive about 6" to the uphill side of the mark to avoid leaving a gap due to the drill crabbing down a bit behind the tractor.

  23. #23
    Michael S
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennine Ploughing View Post
    a good driver does not need gps
    i cut 7 fields of grass
    with a total of 24 break throughs
    and not one butt
    5 of the fields i had never been in before in my life
    and no gps
    I don't doubt what you say and happily accept GPS isn't for everyone but how many of those fields are over 40ha and 1500m long?

    Michael

  24. #24
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael S View Post
    I don't doubt what you say and happily accept GPS isn't for everyone but how many of those fields are over 40ha and 1500m long?

    Michael
    got 7 1000m with hill in middle.

  25. #25
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by peasantman View Post
    How do these systems cope with creepage on hillsides?

    I don't know much about auto steer etc but I know that when I am driving to a bout marker I have to drive about 6" to the uphill side of the mark to avoid leaving a gap due to the drill crabbing down a bit behind the tractor.
    We have many many hills here!

    Ok, so as the slope changes the drill will run wide or narrow, but where the slope is constant the crabbing is the same every time so no problem overall.

    I'm not prepared to spend a fortune on an iGuide for my JD system. I think that without any GPS steering my operator would be overlapping more to allow for crabbing anyway. I would.

  26. #26
    peasantman
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisel View Post
    We have many many hills here!

    Ok, so as the slope changes the drill will run wide or narrow, but where the slope is constant the crabbing is the same every time so no problem overall.

    I'm not prepared to spend a fortune on an iGuide for my JD system. I think that without any GPS steering my operator would be overlapping more to allow for crabbing anyway. I would.
    I once bought one of those light bar things but it was close to useless. By the time it had realised you were off the track, the tramlines already had a kink in it. And if you got anywhere near a tree, and we have lots of them, it went berserk. It went back and forth a few times to be reprogrammed but was never much improvement.

    Put not your faith in machines. Uncle reckoned we had gone soft when we started using bout markers.

  27. #27
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    There's quite a difference between a sub 12" accuracy light bar guidance system & a fully automated steering system with sub 6" accuracy.

    Don't forget that guidance only relies on you turning the steering wheel in response to the reading on the lightbar. I wouldn't have anything less than a foot of overlap set for something like that.

    Compare apples with apples & pears with pears!

  28. #28
    yellow belly
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MJB View Post
    Surely the point is to employ the operator's skill in make the machine work at its best not just drive in a straight line. Most machines are on the back of the tractor so anything that allows the operator to concentrate on setting that up rather than staring straight ahead is going to be an improvement.

    GPS auto steering is not perfect but it's bloody good!

    Matt
    a good operater will drive straight without much effort and can set the machine up properly which will pull straight

    gps will not replace a poor operater who cannot drive just allow them to text and surf while in the seat and keep straight

  29. #29
    anpoterrier
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow belly View Post
    a good operater will drive straight without much effort and can set the machine up properly which will pull straight

    gps will not replace a poor operater who cannot drive just allow them to text and surf while in the seat and keep straight
    thank you

  30. #30
    Brisel
    Guest

    Re: Help! Wiggerly tramlines!!!

    Ok. All you skilled operators - drill without GPS or misses then measure the actual width between the tramlines with a tape measure & tell us all about it on here.

    I have yet meet an "old boy" who drills straight at zero overlap, especially with 3 or 4 m drills & wide 24m+ tramlines.


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