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Thread: 750a A bit more hardcore !

  1. #1
    Clive
    Guest

    750a A bit more hardcore !

    After our easy start in clean OSR stubble with the 750a I thought it was time to try something a little more hardcore today ! Light land again but this time a winter oat stubble with straw chopped - sprayed off with 3l of glyphosate which has done a nice job on some brome that had germinated nicely on the surface


    First pic - what we are drilling into


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    after the drill


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr



    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr


    Finished job


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    although it's nice light land again it was quite wet, we had around 1" of rain since last thursday, slot closing well really and pleased with the job and no evidence of hair-pinning that I could find

    short video drilling headlands

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXriidlO5mo[/YOUTUBE]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXriidlO5mo

  2. #2
    static
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Did you have any laid patches, and did it go through them ok?

  3. #3
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by static View Post
    Did you have any laid patches, and did it go through them ok?
    yes a few - goes through no problem, I doubt you could block a 750a with trash if you tried

  4. #4
    strip-till-phil
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Looks very good that Clive, youv'e got me very interested in the 750 keep posting the pic's

    Cheers

    Phil

  5. #5
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    What was the structure of the seeding slits like behind the wheels of the tractor?

  6. #6
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldspar View Post
    What was the structure of the seeding slits like behind the wheels of the tractor?
    they seemed ok to me, no different to where the tractor hasn't run, the undisturbed ground is travelling very well, I was in the wrong car so didn't have a spade with me to dig properly but scratching around with my keys all seems well

    we have a field on the same block that has been solo'ed (sewage sludge spread so had to be) same soil type and previous cropping etc and it was too wet to drill toady, bought home to me just how much better untouched stubbles dry

  7. #7
    York
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Thanks Clive!
    Keep them going.
    Now when you go into green stubble with a growing cover crop you will be even more amassed how dry a Green stubble can be under socking wet conditions.
    We need tillage!
    Question remains which type of: steel or biological.
    Let the roots & worms do it.
    york-Th.
    p.s. for our likes the rate of Glyphosate should / could be lowered.

  8. #8
    Wuffler
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Farmers Guardian 24th April 2009.
    “We have not turned our back on direct drilling as I am confident that it is the best way to cut fixed costs,” he insists, “but there is no ideal machine on the market at the moment.
    “Many of the drills from overseas manufacturers are not right for our soils –a certain amount of disturbance is necessary to get air down to the seed and break surface compaction.
    Just out of interest Clive, why the change of heart on the 750a ?

  9. #9
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Thanks Clive!
    Keep them going.
    Now when you go into green stubble with a growing cover crop you will be even more amassed how dry a Green stubble can be under socking wet conditions.
    We need tillage!
    Question remains which type of: steel or biological.
    Let the roots & worms do it.
    york-Th.
    p.s. for our likes the rate of Glyphosate should / could be lowered.
    into OSR stubble with thick cover of volunteers 1ft tall tomorrow so will soon find out !

    I worry about low glyphostae rates maybe encouraging resistance over time ??

  10. #10
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuffler View Post
    Farmers Guardian 24th April 2009.


    Just out of interest, why the change of heart on the 750a ?
    Good question !! Hopefully I was wrong ! It certainly would not be the first time

    If i'm honest I never really looked at the 750a very hard, we did like the cross slot but discounted it on the basis of cost, can't really explain why but I think I was looking for strip till type direct drills and didn't at that point appreciate that green cover and worms could do the job for me. We were also sharing establishment kit with Lee at the time and I don't think a 750a would work on his soils, every DD ever tried there has struggled to close the slot in all but ideal conditions and as we were sharing kit my decisions had to have Lee's farm in mind

    When I did look at 750a's in the past they all had the standard closing wheel which really didn't seem to do a very good job at all, the Gutler has transformed it IMO and made it a real option as closing the slot doesn't so far seem to be a problem

    The honest answer is also that at that time there wasn't a drill that would have worked for me as I didn't know enough to make it work ! hopefully I do now

    another key factor is £££ - they are a cheap drill compared to what one would have cost me back when that was written so it's costing me less to at least give it a go ! a lot has changed since that was written, Claydon have evolved no end from the V drill we had, Mzuri a re providing credible competition and fuel prices have maybe doubled increasing my focus on getting away from high HP gas guzzlers

    then again I might still be right - this drill is not a success until my crops are all up and established well ...................we will all know come spring !

  11. #11
    s.chiles
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    If your fields are all as flat as that I'd take the weight block off, you'll be amazed how much fuel you'll save. On the JD 6910 it would run out of fuel by about 5pm with the weight block on, could go past midnight without it.
    The 6930 however will need the block on only if you're drilling deep on steep banks as it has too much torque for the wheels to grip enough without the weight. The 6930 will go up banks in C range that the 6910 would only go up in B.

  12. #12
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Clive
    Are you in an nvz?
    Watch out for slow growth from lack of n mineralisation. Its the first thing that struck me despite perfect establishment.

  13. #13
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by s.chiles View Post
    If your fields are all as flat as that I'd take the weight block off, you'll be amazed how much fuel you'll save. On the JD 6910 it would run out of fuel by about 5pm with the weight block on, could go past midnight without it.
    The 6930 however will need the block on only if you're drilling deep on steep banks as it has too much torque for the wheels to grip enough without the weight. The 6930 will go up banks in C range that the 6910 would only go up in B.
    Not all that flat unfortunately we do have some decent banks - will give it a try without weights where we can though and see how much difference it makes

  14. #14
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldspar View Post
    What was the structure of the seeding slits like behind the wheels of the tractor?
    I've fitted some bits of metal plate to go between the spring to keep the downpressure a bit higher where the tractor wheelings are. Not sure how much difference it makes but its pretty cheap and easy to do.

  15. #15
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by shakerator View Post
    Clive
    Are you in an nvz?
    Watch out for slow growth from lack of n mineralisation. Its the first thing that struck me despite perfect establishment.
    We are in a nvz - I'm not expecting it to fly away at this time of year, ideally I would have drilled it all a month ago to compensate

    We are using a very tick seed rate (maybe too thick) to try and compensate though

    I think a fert system on the drill would be great and is something I am look g into for the future

  16. #16
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    they seemed ok to me, no different to where the tractor hasn't run, the undisturbed ground is travelling very well, I was in the wrong car so didn't have a spade with me to dig properly but scratching around with my keys all seems well

    we have a field on the same block that has been solo'ed (sewage sludge spread so had to be) same soil type and previous cropping etc and it was too wet to drill toady, bought home to me just how much better untouched stubbles dry
    Too right - anything rotorvated (headlands and next to hedge) here is a sludgy mess the DD keeps clean.

    Drilled some WW last friday week and its about to start poking its head through the surface now. Taken bit longer than I would like as it was a touch deep and we've had no sun. Its nice when it comes through esp as usually weeds don't come for a while after.

    Having said that I don't think I'm going to DD OSR anymore with the 750. I think I'm going to use contractor with Sumo Grassland subsoiler and a seeder. Not happy enough with the rape after baled wheat this year.

  17. #17
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Too right - anything rotorvated (headlands and next to hedge) here is a sludgy mess the DD keeps clean.

    Drilled some WW last friday week and its about to start poking its head through the surface now. Taken bit longer than I would like as it was a touch deep and we've had no sun. Its nice when it comes through esp as usually weeds don't come for a while after

    Having said that I don't think I'm going to DD OSR anymore with the 750. I think I'm going to use contractor with Sumo Grassland subsoiler and a seeder. Not happy enough with the rape after baled wheat this year.
    Will - do you think if you could get some fert down with the osr seed it would work better ?

    Why do you think it's struggling with osr ?

  18. #18
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Will - do you think if you could get some fert down with the osr seed it would work better ?

    Why do you think it's struggling with osr ?
    I think it went in a touch deep to be honest and also left it a bit slotty. I didn't roll after either which was a mistake.

    Last year it looked crap all year though and did about 1.3t/acre and I did put a bit of fert down though.

    It may come ok but I did re-drill two fields that were slug heaven and I just get the feeling if I subsoil and drill I can get the accuracy of seed rate and just get them on the surface.

    It would cost about £25/acre for subsoil/drilling rape and if I cost my own drilling at about £10/acre I think the early mineralisation and faster growth would probably be better. The sumo grassland machine is pretty low disturbance so that suits me better as its lower herbicide costs (only need kerb then)

    May change my opinion again sometime though

    p.s. plenty of boys are happy with the 750 in Rape (eg martian likes it) but then I think Dockers for example chooses the seedhawk and Hartwig likes a little bit of tine too. So who knows?

  19. #19
    DairyFarmer111
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Guys, sorry to but in, but I think this is relevant to the comment on weight blocks. I've been reading this thread with interest, but we only play at arable with a few acres of wholecrop.

    This summer I have been zero-grazing with a large forage wagon (purchased solely for silage) on the back and a JD 131 mower on the front. This is a heavy mower with steel conditioners weighing 1200kgs+. Tractor is 50kph. I notice a massive difference on the road when I have the mower on the front when climbing the hills on our road. When you are going to the field empty, it basically loads the tractor the equivalent to having half a load of grass behind you in the wagon. Half a load would weight about seven ton. On the return trip with a full load I think the effect is less as the wagon pressing down on the hitch is easing the pressure on the front axle.

    So I think you could well be right about front weight considering the drag I feel it puts on my machine. I think its a question of balance perhaps. The 750 probably isn't putting that much weight on the tractor when its in work?

  20. #20
    s.chiles
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I think it went in a touch deep to be honest and also left it a bit slotty. I didn't roll after either which was a mistake.

    Last year it looked crap all year though and did about 1.3t/acre and I did put a bit of fert down though.

    It may come ok but I did re-drill two fields that were slug heaven and I just get the feeling if I subsoil and drill I can get the accuracy of seed rate and just get them on the surface.

    It would cost about £25/acre for subsoil/drilling rape and if I cost my own drilling at about £10/acre I think the early mineralisation and faster growth would probably be better. The sumo grassland machine is pretty low disturbance so that suits me better as its lower herbicide costs (only need kerb then)

    May change my opinion again sometime though

    p.s. plenty of boys are happy with the 750 in Rape (eg martian likes it) but then I think Dockers for example chooses the seedhawk and Hartwig likes a little bit of tine too. So who knows?
    Forget the tine and fert down the spout. Foliar fert within the first 30 days of growth is the way forward. Any doubts the come and listen to Neil Fuller at Plumpton.

  21. #21
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    we normally apply 20kg N as soon as OSR has emerged to get it going - haven't bothered the last 2 years as sewage sludge N has given this early kick instead

    Have a foliar feed going on with graminicide this week hopefully with Zinc,and Manganese

  22. #22
    s.chiles
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Make sure there's some P in the mix, it aids root development but only in the first days of growth.

  23. #23
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by s.chiles View Post
    Make sure there's some P in the mix, it aids root development but only in the first days of growth.
    all our wheat seed is dressed with manganese, zinc and P this year with this in mind - a first for us but trying hard to get nutrition much more precise and targeted this year

    I think the OSR foliar feed also has P in it along with a bit of calcium

  24. #24
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    In some OSR stubbles today

    Before


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    After

    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    Thank god for GPS ! field done - but the neighbours would never guess it's wheat !!


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr


    Plenty of slugs to be found - field was pelleted when sprayed with Glyphosate last week (4kg ferric phosphate) and has had another 4kg on top while drilling. Will need to be vigilant I think though on this one !

  25. #25
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    I'll have a sporting bet that 4kg and 4kg would be enough.

    If you had the chance to roll twice if it dries I'd take it.

  26. #26
    York
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    fertilizer with the seed:
    Please be a little more precise. It makes a hell of a difference which type of N source you choose.
    "Don't forget P"
    also here, which type of P? If you are talking about MAP & DAP just think about the composition and their chemical reaction in the soil. This was explained several times here.
    Summary: we see big differences in using N with the seed, but more even related to the type of N. And to make it even more complex it does relate to the soil as well. So differrant soils, basically Ca : Mg ratio at the Kations is having a big impact as well.
    York-Th.

  27. #27
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    fertilizer with the seed:
    Please be a little more precise. It makes a hell of a difference which type of N source you choose.
    "Don't forget P"
    also here, which type of P? If you are talking about MAP & DAP just think about the composition and their chemical reaction in the soil. This was explained several times here.
    Summary: we see big differences in using N with the seed, but more even related to the type of N. And to make it even more complex it does relate to the soil as well. So differrant soils, basically Ca : Mg ratio at the Kations is having a big impact as well.
    York-Th.
    i thought there were big differences between MAP and DAP?

    MAP producing an acidic reaction within the rooting zone and DAP having the potential for free ammonia causing seed damage?

  28. #28
    Oil Barron
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Looks like the best tool for establishing rape this year is the combine.

  29. #29
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Todays efforts

    After the drill


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    another finished field


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    just 1 L of glyphosate and 4kg detrex yesterday then direct into the volunteer crop, my hope is that remaining slugs will favour eating the osr over the wheat seeds. Will be watching it carefully and pelleting again if needed though

    slot closing well but we have done 1 small field where thee was less cover and therefore wetter soil, the slots were closed on 90% of the field but some were open and I wasn't happy with that so i have just sent the rolls in before tonights expected rain, if we have time the plan is to roll as much as we can as it can only help I guess ?

    if we get the forecast rain I think we will be stood now until after the weekend at best

  30. #30
    bob k
    Guest

    Re: 750a A bit more hardcore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Todays efforts


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr


    Untitled by bailye, on Flickr

    just 1 L of glyphosate and 4kg detrex yesterday then direct into the volunteer crop, my hope is that remaining slugs will favour eating the osr over the wheat seeds. Will be watching it carefully and pelleting again if needed though

    slot closing well but we have done 1 small field where thee was less cover and therefore wetter soil, the slots were closed on 90% of the field but some were open and I wasn't happy with that so i have just sent the rolls in before tonights expected rain, if we have time the plan is to roll as much as we can as it can only help I guess ?

    if we get the forecast rain I think we will be stood now until after the weekend at best
    I'm fascinated by this system Clive, presumably the osr should be dead by the time the wheat emerges ? keep the photos coming .
    It's almost like an old catch crop situation ,mopping up excess moisture in a year of extreme weather

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