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Thread: Claydon disappointing

  1. #31
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Depends on the depth of the compaction. If very shallow the Clayton fine if you can getva tilth. If deep compaction then no.

  2. #32
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    I know I am not answering any of the threads but I really do not think you can judge any system or machine on the basis of experiences in 2012... We have never had fewer spraying days in April/May/June...until 2012...We have never had a sprayer totally bogged down in July dessiciating OSR..until 2012...We have never had areas of wheat and rape that we couldn't harvest ...until 2012... We have never had such poor crop yields (and quality)...until 2012...We have never failed to establish any autumn crops (with 85 years of living memory).. until 2012 ..
    Having only just recovered from 2008 I think we are going to have to totally re-think our farming system and be prepared for a total wipe-out every three years.. Roll on 2015 !

  3. #33
    will7
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Jim,

    You are right not to be making any major decisions based on this year, but the horrendous weather we have been having (worse with you than here in the East) has confirmed some thoughts I have been having and also taught me new lessons which would be foolish to ignore.

    1) ww/osr rotation has been found out this year on very heavy land
    2) drilling wheat into green osr volunteers does reduce slug pressure and leaves the soil more friable, on this forums recommendation.
    3) the versadrill went better in the wet than the mzuri I had on demo!
    4) land drainage is king, soldiering on with ever-increasing wet holes on fields last drained in 1949 is no longer an option.
    5) wheat stubble wants to be cut high when chopping straw pre osr. There is a direct correlation between plant population/development and stubble length.
    6) There is more to life than spending 120hrs/week on a tractor so I will be looking for a member of staff.

    Regards

    Will

    That will probably do for now

  4. #34
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    I know I am not answering any of the threads but I really do not think you can judge any system or machine on the basis of experiences in 2012... We have never had fewer spraying days in April/May/June...until 2012...We have never had a sprayer totally bogged down in July dessiciating OSR..until 2012...We have never had areas of wheat and rape that we couldn't harvest ...until 2012... We have never had such poor crop yields (and quality)...until 2012...We have never failed to establish any autumn crops (with 85 years of living memory).. until 2012 ..
    Having only just recovered from 2008 I think we are going to have to totally re-think our farming system and be prepared for a total wipe-out every three years.. Roll on 2015 !
    I agree this is not a year to base decision upon at all but it has hardened my believe that in any conditions the system that moves the less soil has big advantages. In the wet the advantage has been not damaging soils but in a dry year the advantage would be moisture conservation

    Consolidation is king when it comes to the battle with slugs so is important in the wet but likewise important to conserve moisture in a dry year

    ultimately what I'm saying is the characteristics you need from a drill in a wet year are not dissimilar to what you need in a dry year either

  5. #35
    spikeislander
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    I know I am not answering any of the threads but I really do not think you can judge any system or machine on the basis of experiences in 2012... We have never had fewer spraying days in April/May/June...until 2012...We have never had a sprayer totally bogged down in July dessiciating OSR..until 2012...We have never had areas of wheat and rape that we couldn't harvest ...until 2012... We have never had such poor crop yields (and quality)...until 2012...We have never failed to establish any autumn crops (with 85 years of living memory).. until 2012 ..
    Having only just recovered from 2008 I think we are going to have to totally re-think our farming system and be prepared for a total wipe-out every three years.. Roll on 2015 !
    Agreed its a bad year but I think there are more traditional methods of farming that I would gamble on not failing every 3 years! If that is the outcome of newer systems I think I will keep going as I am ( father and myself have never had a notable crop failure since starting in 1951! a record i intend to keep), the savings these direct drills can achieve in a good year must be huge if a right off one in three can be financially absorbed.

  6. #36
    Krampeman
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeislander View Post
    )the savings these direct drills can achieve in a good year must be huge if a right off one in three can be financially absorbed.
    Still not convinced to be honest. With hired in tractors pulling either 2nd hand Sumo's or 20 yr old ploughs and 20 yr old combi drills its cost us 32/ac to plant crops in the worst year since 1912 according to the history books. Yes we have used more fuel than direct drilling but then again the ploughs and combi drills have offset that because they have cost virtually nothing to run.

    What we have done is not help the soil structure but we now have crops up and growing and with next years prices looking like we may see a '3' at the front then I can't say I am to bothered about the soil for a year.

    If I had been direct drilling for the last 5 years or so, I honestly don't think I could have drilled at least 50% of what we have done. The only reason we have managed to get those crops in is due to traditional farming methods I.e. The combi drill.

    I think the point I've learnt is you do what you need to do, whatever that is, to get the crop planted and growing. Sticking to one system is not an option.

  7. #37
    spikeislander
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Thats my point really I am not a dd fan (have followed a claydon for two years doing spraying etc) but I think on certain years these drills will work.
    At 200+ a tonne yield is king and getting the highest yield at what ever the establishment cost will pretty much pay back. Maybe if we return to the days of 70 a tonne then they will be worth another look. I am not against progress and was watching dd very closely but this year has brought us back to basics I feel.
    Here we have just changed our rubber tracked crawler and looking at primary cultivators and ploughs in the future if that gives a clue to my stand point on it.

  8. #38
    Cropper
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    I think the point I've learnt is you do what you need to do, whatever that is, to get the crop planted and growing. Sticking to one system is not an option.[/QUOTE]

    You've hit the nail on the head there, I have always believed that each year you need a different set of machinery to sow your crops, min-till DD work well when its dry - plough/combi when its wet and also when dry and therefore is the more versatile method. Ploughs have gone seriously out of fashion in the last few years but I'm sure they are now having a renaissance

  9. #39
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    I know a man on this forum who has direct drilled a significant area every year for the past 15 plus years through very wet years like 2000 and 2008 etc and made it work consistently and I guess saved a fortune doing so whilst improving his soil and getting good crops

    He is not on boys land either....... Far from it !

    Just to say the right person with the right system can make direct drilling work consistently, it's just not as simple as it first appears

    I simply don't believe you need a different set of kit for every different year, you just need the right system for your land

  10. #40
    Niels
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Thank you for all the replies! It continues raining for now so it will be frost or a dry spring before we can drill. But i wonder how much it will save in the spring. The area is not bigger than an acre or so.

  11. #41
    Ian01
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I agree this is not a year to base decision upon at all but it has hardened my believe that in any conditions the system that moves the less soil has big advantages. In the wet the advantage has been not damaging soils but in a dry year the advantage would be moisture conservation

    Consolidation is king when it comes to the battle with slugs so is important in the wet but likewise important to conserve moisture in a dry year

    ultimately what I'm saying is the characteristics you need from a drill in a wet year are not dissimilar to what you need in a dry year either
    I agree with this to a point on lighter land, but on heavy land, anyone that hasn't ploughed or loosened to plough depth with a loosening leg has been left with drowned crops sitting in puddles or wet s***e. These heavy soils had been washed together pre harvest and panned down at harvest, and needed loosening to let the water away and plant roots down imo.

  12. #42
    nick channer
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Niels View Post
    Thank you for all the replies! It continues raining for now so it will be frost or a dry spring before we can drill. But i wonder how much it will save in the spring. The area is not bigger than an acre or so.
    drilled 70 acres wheat today with v-drill. went in well on some stony ground.
    another 250 acres to get in this week i'm hoping...

  13. #43
    brit
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian01 View Post
    I agree with this to a point on lighter land, but on heavy land, anyone that hasn't ploughed or loosened to plough depth with a loosening leg has been left with drowned crops sitting in puddles or wet s***e. These heavy soils had been washed together pre harvest and panned down at harvest, and needed loosening to let the water away and plant roots down imo.
    We are not on light land by any stretch of the imagination. The conditions you desrcibe are not the case here .In west leicestershire we must be pretty average in the wet land stakes this autumn, I have planted my wheat the same way I have the past few years, some mintill after OSR some dd after linseed. The point that ploughophiles don't get is that your soils will drain and breath much better after a few years of less intensive cultivation. I used to think like you, but have found through experience that i was wrong (and no doubt still am on many things !). Although perhaps I should have waited untill the last of it is up in the rows before posting this.

    Going back to the original thread. The problem with the Claydon, Msuri etc is that it is all or nothing, if the conditions aren't right you can't allow the soil to dry between operations if needed, if conditions are right i'm sure the machines are great if you feel the need to move that much soil but how many machines can you afford to keep.

  14. #44
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Claydon disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian01 View Post
    I agree with this to a point on lighter land, but on heavy land, anyone that hasn't ploughed or loosened to plough depth with a loosening leg has been left with drowned crops sitting in puddles or wet s***e. These heavy soils had been washed together pre harvest and panned down at harvest, and needed loosening to let the water away and plant roots down imo.
    Depends how long you've been DD for. If the soils have been washed together (?) then your structure is not there yet. If its panned then your structure is not there yet.

    Ploughing sorts it out, for about 6 weeks. And then it will slump again. And again. And again..

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