Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 35

Thread: "Classic" high tech tractors.

  1. #1
    heaty
    Guest

    "Classic" high tech tractors.

    What will happen to todays electronically controlled tractors as they get to the stage when the electronics prevent them from working. will they ever get old enough to become classics. There is nothing to stop todays classics from going on indefinitely. When they become vintage will there be no classics ?

  2. #2
    dgw
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    I would imagine that there will be parts available. Bear in mind that what is considered high tech electronics today will be stone age in twenty years time; and (I would have thought) cheap and easy to make. Look at colour TV's when they came out in the late sixties; they cost over 300 then, when a new small family car was about 800!
    I may be wrong on this, but technology is advancing so quickly that I cannot see long term replacement electrics/computers being a problem.

  3. #3
    JD_Kid
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    DGW try and buy a new part for a 1990s TV or toaster .. once the parts are gone it will just be one off's

    it's like modern cars most of them will not make classic eather

  4. #4
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by heaty View Post
    What will happen to todays electronically controlled tractors as they get to the stage when the electronics prevent them from working. will they ever get old enough to become classics. There is nothing to stop todays classics from going on indefinitely. When they become vintage will there be no classics ?
    They go back to the early to mid 1980's and there are plenty working on farms as important members of a fleet.
    Currently no problem with spares for the big names although it is a big worry for some lesser selling brands, especially for obscure models in those brands.

    But how long should they really last as viable farm tractors? Technology has always changed and made earlier models obsolete and we have been in a very long period now where prime movers have not advanced substantially. My 1993 tractor is as 'electronic' as any current model available and is still going strong. At some point there will be an issue that causes these old-timers to be broken for parts to keep other similar tractors going. 'Twas ever thus.
    Nothing lasts indefinitely. Not unless someone wraps it in cotton wool and cherishes it.

  5. #5
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Kid View Post
    DGW try and buy a new part for a 1990s TV or toaster .. once the parts are gone it will just be one off's

    it's like modern cars most of them will not make classic eather
    They have a better chance of reaching classic status than the dreadful unreliable rust-buckets of the 1960's and 1970's.

    Of course 'most' will not become classics. Most will be crushed, as they always have been. It takes a certain dedicated eccentric or crank to keep the old stuff going for decades, no cost or effort spared.

  6. #6
    heaty
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    They go back to the early to mid 1980's and there are plenty working on farms as important members of a fleet.
    Currently no problem with spares for the big names although it is a big worry for some lesser selling brands, especially for obscure models in those brands.

    But how long should they really last as viable farm tractors? Technology has always changed and made earlier models obsolete and we have been in a very long period now where prime movers have not advanced substantially. My 1993 tractor is as 'electronic' as any current model available and is still going strong. At some point there will be an issue that causes these old-timers to be broken for parts to keep other similar tractors going. 'Twas ever thus.
    Nothing lasts indefinitely. Not unless someone wraps it in cotton wool and cherishes it.
    The fault code list for a 3000 series massey or SLE ford isnt anywhere near as long as for a 30 series Deere

  7. #7
    JimmyM
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    they may well end up scrap as they will be too expensive to change/fix the electronics when they go too far wonky BUT will the electronics be removable from some models to turn them into simple models?

  8. #8
    dgw
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    I know you can't get parts for a 1980's toaster (God knows I've tried for long enough) but its not quite the same as a tractor or car. I know those of us who run older tractors and cars are somewhat eccentric by nature (some would say backward, but then you have to make allowances for the ignorance of friends and family); but to try and repair a classic toaster would be surely be bordering on admission into some sort of institution.
    Is there anybody out there listening to me?

  9. #9
    Red Fred
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Presumably it takes a wide customer base to keep the classic car and tractor parts industries going, so as long as there are still loads of us about who associate Grey Fergies/35s/Ford4000s,etc with memories of happy small farm childhoods and mum bringing the tea out to the hayfields, then they will continue to be restored.
    More modern stuff doesn't have the same appeal, at least around here. For example, my IH895 loader has done 12000 hours and not one other person has ever sat on it since it arrived. It simply did a job and the feelings it evokes are somewhat mixed as the 20 years it represents have seen a decline in the social side of the job. The happy memories from the last 20 years certainly don't revolve around sitting on a tractor, as they may have done when we were kids.
    Similarly, my 14 year old 106 car evokes no feelings at all from anyone as it is simply a reliable but bland object. It is vastly better than the 10 year old Morris 1000 I once had which used to make everyone croon with nostalgia!

  10. #10
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    I Would think fuel would be the biggest problem in distant futcher due to the electric powered vehicles just like change from horses to fossil fuels in 1900s thats would be my biggest fear

  11. #11
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    I Would think fuel would be the biggest problem in distant futcher due to the electric powered vehicles just like change from horses to fossil fuels in 1900s thats would be my biggest fear
    Classic tractors don't use much fuel when stored in a shed to be brought out for the occasional local vintage show.
    There are still steam tractors, TVO and petrol tractors and even horses on farms and with enthusiasts, so it is extremely unlikely that any change of fuel in the future will kill off classics and vintage.

    Neither will electronics be a problem. They are not going to be working tractors as such, so who cares if certain bits don't work as they should. But there will always be breakers around and specialist suppliers, no doubt.

    Yes, in some cases it is possible to bi-pass normal electronic control systems and just use a standard switch, if all else fails.

  12. #12
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Classic tractors don't use much fuel when stored in a shed to be brought out for the occasional local vintage show.
    There are still steam tractors, TVO and petrol tractors and even horses on farms and with enthusiasts, so it is extremely unlikely that any change of fuel in the future will kill off classics and vintage.

    Neither will electronics be a problem. They are not going to be working tractors as such, so who cares if certain bits don't work as they should. But there will always be breakers around and specialist suppliers, no doubt.

    Yes, in some cases it is possible to bi-pass normal electronic control systems and just use a standard switch, if all else fails.
    Good luck if to you, if you are wiling to replae the fendt terminal with a few switchs yea that wil sort it
    In my last post i wasnt meanin it the way you replyd but heyho i cant be botherd to argue

  13. #13
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    Good luck if to you, if you are wiling to replae the fendt terminal with a few switchs yea that wil sort it
    In my last post i wasnt meanin it the way you replyd but heyho i cant be botherd to argue
    You can actually drive the Fendt mechanically. My tractor certainly came with a long box-spanner that is meant to be engaged with a nut on the drive regulator through a hole in the cab floor, in the event that the normal electronic controls should ever fail. Never have had occasion to try it out but it does rather put your case to bed.

  14. #14
    deere2140
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Although the " modern " tractor use ECU's which might be hard or expensive to come by ( though I doubt it ) , generally speaking these can be bypassed with a bit of wiring and switchery . Your linkage might only go up and down , without draft control and your transmission might not auto-shift , but we can live with that on a 30 year old tractor .
    Engine control might be a tougher nut to crack , but someone will come up with a standard off-the-shelf replacement that can be programmed to read the standard sensors .

  15. #15
    muck spreader
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    You can actually drive the Fendt mechanically. My tractor certainly came with a long box-spanner that is meant to be engaged with a nut on the drive regulator through a hole in the cab floor, in the event that the normal electronic controls should ever fail. Never have had occasion to try it out but it does rather put your case to bed.
    Just like at one time all cars used to come with starting handles and motor bikes retained kickstarts, just in case

  16. #16
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by muck spreader View Post
    Just like at one time all cars used to come with starting handles and motor bikes retained kickstarts, just in case
    Exactly so.

  17. #17
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by deere2140 View Post
    Although the " modern " tractor use ECU's which might be hard or expensive to come by ( though I doubt it ) , generally speaking these can be bypassed with a bit of wiring and switchery . Your linkage might only go up and down , without draft control and your transmission might not auto-shift , but we can live with that on a 30 year old tractor .
    Engine control might be a tougher nut to crack , but someone will come up with a standard off-the-shelf replacement that can be programmed to read the standard sensors .
    As far as the linkage goes, you could even plumb the link lift rams to a spool valve on many tractors should you so wish. This used to be and probably still is common practice on MF3000 series [and is relevant even to the current models] when buckraking as an example, so that the drivers hand only had to move between the two spool valve levers when working intensively.

    I can see engine repairs being particularly problematic in future due to the computer control and emissions crap. But over their economic operational life it will mainly be a monetary problem, not a problem of sourcing parts it seems to me. These common-rail engines will cost a magnitude more to keep going over the very long term and I fear that once they get beyond say 15 years old, just the cost of any particular major repair could have them relegated to being breakers in order to keep others going. This has always been the case of course but perhaps the timeline will get shorter on average.

  18. #18
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    You can actually drive the Fendt mechanically. My tractor certainly came with a long box-spanner that is meant to be engaged with a nut on the drive regulator through a hole in the cab floor, in the event that the normal electronic controls should ever fail. Never have had occasion to try it out but it does rather put your case to bed.
    Does that same spanner work the spools and hydraulics?

  19. #19
    Ad
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    Does that same spanner work the spools and hydraulics?
    The electronic spool's have a small linkage on the end of the valve for emergency use i expect this could easily attached to a cable, also there is a change over valve (i think all Fendts have) that diverts oil flow from one of the spools to the rear linkage it also makes it double acting

  20. #20
    Pryderi
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    Does that same spanner work the spools and hydraulics?
    No but I presume you just manually press the end of the solenoid valve with your thumb to divert oil flow to wherever you need it for you to get home. Seen few tractors (MF3000 usually) with a banc of toggle switches in the cab hard wired to the solenoids such as 4wd, diff etc. the up down on the hydraulics can also be wired in this way if needed or as mentioned straight to a spool valve!! Hardly think a 30 yeard old 724, 7485 T6 150 or 6190R will actually need a fully functioning Headland Management system or auto 4wd by that stage!!!

  21. #21
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pryderi View Post
    No but I presume you just manually press the end of the solenoid valve with your thumb to divert oil flow to wherever you need it for you to get home. Seen few tractors (MF3000 usually) with a banc of toggle switches in the cab hard wired to the solenoids such as 4wd, diff etc. the up down on the hydraulics can also be wired in this way if needed or as mentioned straight to a spool valve!! Hardly think a 30 yeard old 724, 7485 T6 150 or 6190R will actually need a fully functioning Headland Management system or auto 4wd by that stage!!!
    Thats cleared that up then thanx for reply

  22. #22
    dieseldogg
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Perhaps a kinda related or pertinent, but at the recent APF show Wilsons (Dalbeattie based) had a Valtra semi-stripped of electronics, for use in the forestry industry.
    They had already totally prepped a Valtra so as to have NO electronics for some of the Scottish islands to launch a life boat off a beach or sommat.
    They had the "hybrid" varient, with minimal electronics, there on the stand to gauge consumer reaction.

  23. #23
    Ad
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Just out of interest where do the armed forces stand with common rail engines in it's vehicles and plant?

    Say if they bought a telehandler/shovel off JCB would it have CR engine?

    I think the CR engine will be the achilles heel of the modern classic?

  24. #24
    AandR
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad View Post
    Just out of interest where do the armed forces stand with common rail engines in it's vehicles and plant?

    Say if they bought a telehandler/shovel off JCB would it have CR engine?

    I think the CR engine will be the achilles heel of the modern classic?
    They proberly will, the difference being i bet within the deal they get all the access equipment and sofeware inc updates to repair them in field.

  25. #25
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by AandR View Post
    They proberly will, the difference being i bet within the deal they get all the access equipment and sofeware inc updates to repair them in field.
    And they will pay about ten times the going rate for the 'back-up'.

    How they protect military equipment from being disabled by an electro-magnetic pulse must be exercising somebody's time. Perhaps they wrap it all in tinfoil to match their hats?


  26. #26
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    And they will pay about ten times the going rate for the 'back-up'.

    How they protect military equipment from being disabled by an electro-magnetic pulse must be exercising somebody's time. Perhaps they wrap it all in tinfoil to match their hats?

    Is this what you get up to on a sat nite with a pussy

  27. #27
    pudding
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    opinion is a great thing huh everyone got one

    people said the MF3000 series were too high tech, when they get old they be scrapped lol

    i know of one in particular, its no drama for the auto sparkie to get round it, with very little info, the last problem it had was mechanical, and it was human induced......spanners watson was there before

    i guess we forget that the industry evolves too,

    to me the stuff that will be round long into the future is the machines with as much ISO or SAE industry standard functioning parts, its funny as the margins become crutial in manufacturering, and the goal of the component is more clearly defined, more components have more substitutes, switches all seem to fit the same hole, sensors all work in similar voltage ranges, threads are becoming similar spec, kinda like spark plugs eh.

    actually everyone who knows about the IH 2+2 knows the front axle was the weekpoint, anyone ever seen one scrapped because of it?

    anyone ever noticed that honda and cat use there own dimensions for seals, for there machines, and there are not always a afftermarket substitute available for these, this is cleaver by them, means they retain ownership of sales long into the service life of the machine. no one seems to be worried that one day those manufacturer's will stop building them!

  28. #28
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrotron 150.7 View Post
    Is this what you get up to on a sat nite with a pussy
    Its the only pussy I'll see tonight. But there's always tomorrow.

  29. #29
    agrotron 150.7
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Its the only pussy I'll see tonight. But there's always tomorrow.
    Tomorrow never comes good luck

  30. #30
    TM135
    Guest

    Re: "Classic" high tech tractors.

    Whats all the fuss about. On my tractors the electrical gubbins have been the easiest bits to repair/replace.

    A linkage potentiometer went last year. The dealer had it replaced within the hour.

    A ECU or linkage control panel is usually removed by undoing a few screws and a multi plug or 2

    The last mechanical breakdown we had involved a trip to the dealers on a low loader, The tractor out of commision for 4 days and a repair bill that cost over 600 just in labour!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •