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Thread: GEN coulters

  1. #1
    Clive
    Guest

    GEN coulters

    A few users on the forum now ?? Hartwig, Knockie, Soren ??

    They look very interesting and a very good option for a tine direct drill, not least as many existing (cheap) machines can be converted

    which opener are you using and how well is it working ? how much soil disturbance does it create, any pics or youtube etc would be great

    What do they cost ?

  2. #2
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    You can also buy the Bourgault range (aka Claydon) from Martin Lishman, about 140 per coulter to fit to a tine including, boot, adaptors for knock on, and point. Mix and match is possible with them.

  3. #3
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    We looked at getting a set to convert our horsch co4 and going in with 155TM to save carriage it worked out at just under 2000 all in so not horrendous in my opinion. Best to ask knockie, there's info on his simba free flow thread.
    But a tidy CO4 for around 7k Clive and for under ten grand you have tine to add to your disc option - kerching:lolk:

  4. #4
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsewell View Post
    But a tidy CO4 for around 7k Clive and for under ten grand you have tine to add to your disc option - kerching:lolk:
    kind of my thinking ! especially for OSR drilling where the 750a might not be ideal and also some seed bed fert a good idea

    would like to know a lot more about the coulters though - i saw in the freeflow thread he had to make changes to them

    also to see what kind of job they do would be good

  5. #5
    fred
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Heres what we didAttachment 36799

  6. #6
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    kind of my thinking ! especially for OSR drilling where the 750a might not be ideal and also some seed bed fert a good idea

    would like to know a lot more about the coulters though - i saw in the freeflow thread he had to make changes to them

    also to see what kind of job they do would be good
    Clive,

    I've been mulling over the success and failures I've had with the 750 in drilling OSR and I'm thinking like this:

    Anything you can get in in August sould be ok with the 750. I think if you can put a bit of fert close and some slug pellets in the slot as well as on top I think it will be fine.

    Where I had trouble was where it was too wet and the smeared slots meant the rape gave up.

    p.s. a few people are asking about Gen openers so why not ask for a bulk order from Canada through Soren and get them sent to one farm in the UK direct? Save a bit of messing about

  7. #7
    Alistair_Nelson
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Spoke to horsch on Friday about what they have in the pipeline as the 3 off 12m sprinters have been used direct drilling with various different coulters and arrangements but they weren't giving much away. Perhaps Tom H could tell us more.

  8. #8
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Heres what we didAttachment 36799
    interesting set up - bet it works well for osr like that

    what fert are you using ?

  9. #9
    Krampeman
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Heres what we didAttachment 36799
    I might be wrong but are you just dropping the seed like a cultivator seeder unit?

    I think if I was to dd osr then I would prefer to place it so why not put you seed pipe on the coulter?


  10. #10
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Krampeman View Post
    I might be wrong but are you just dropping the seed like a cultivator seeder unit?

    I think if I was to dd osr then I would prefer to place it so why not put you seed pipe on the coulter?

    looks like a OSR set-up Lee

    coulter is cultivating a strip - liquid fert applied then seed dropped on surface to be rolled in by the tyre press wheel

    bet it works well - the coulter looks deep enough to get a tap root down

  11. #11
    fred
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    We are using 18 -27-0 fert

    We run the point at the roll pin depth

    Yes we are dropping the seed but only from 2 inch height, also, if you look carefully there is a bolt welded across the bottom of the coulter this is to spread the seed to either side of the cultivated zone , so we avoid dropping it down the slot if it doesn't close , this is only a problem on clays , the rest of the time the soil flow has already closed the slot , it would probably be better without the bean coulter boot but this was all we had,

    The rape looks well , could probably have done with more fert only put 50 l/ha on, should have been nearer, 75, we also mixed pellets in with seed , we drilled 250 acres with this set up and and am very pleased with it. Will probably do most of the our own next year,

    I also plan to drop the discs out the sumo trios and run duett coulters behind the legs with liquid fert

    Definitely only for rape not enough depth control for wheat, I have also seen the horsch solution it's very simple and but I don't want to go to wider rows

  12. #12
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Had a go with the GEN-openers with wheat into bean stubbles, worked well but massive soil disturbance on top, looks like lightly cultivated ! But certainly not bad for this years conditions.

    Unfortunately the drill gave up with an electronic problem on saturday afternoon, which the mechanics were not able to fix or even identify and then it rained again anyway.....
    After it dried up a little I had a go on sunday with my Moore, so I have a side-by-side comparison now, if it grows for wet, slugs, etc......

  13. #13
    155tm
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsewell View Post
    We looked at getting a set to convert our horsch co4 and going in with 155TM to save carriage it worked out at just under 2000 all in so not horrendous in my opinion. Best to ask knockie, there's info on his simba free flow thread.
    But a tidy CO4 for around 7k Clive and for under ten grand you have tine to add to your disc option - kerching:lolk:
    Back from Yorkshire, and we have discussed ourselves out of the idea Tom!

    Plan B is try to get the duetts to run level rather than to 'consolidate the seeding area' putting a tape measure on them our best guess is that the back of the sole runs 10mm deeper than the front. if we swap the bottom mounting bolt from an M14 to an M12 bolt it will only be consolidating by 2-3mm, so less smearing in theory! More chance of breaking the smaller mounting bolt, but hey ho! Still may go for the GEN's in the spring.

    EDIT:- M16 down to M14

  14. #14
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by 155tm View Post
    Back from Yorkshire, and we have discussed ourselves out of the idea Tom!

    Plan B is try to get the duetts to run level rather than to 'consolidate the seeding area' putting a tape measure on them our best guess is that the back of the sole runs 10mm deeper than the front. if we swap the bottom mounting bolt from an M14 to an M12 bolt it will only be consolidating by 2-3mm, so less smearing in theory! More chance of breaking the smaller mounting bolt, but hey ho! Still may go for the GEN's in the spring.
    Sounds interesting Guy! Take plenty of spare bolts when you go drilling at Leeds

    Ours was working fine with standard duets into linseed stubble ten days ago.
    Really like the mod above with modified bean coulter and liquid fert application and costs 16 bits of plate and a bit of time in workshop with MIG and plasma

  15. #15
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Heres what we didAttachment 36799
    Hi Fred, is that standard bean points?
    What fert kit are you using?
    Drilling every row or every other?
    Any pics of rape now?

    Cheers Tom

  16. #16
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    kind of my thinking ! especially for OSR drilling where the 750a might not be ideal and also some seed bed fert a good idea

    would like to know a lot more about the coulters though - i saw in the freeflow thread he had to make changes to them

    also to see what kind of job they do would be good
    My thoughts are similar! Co4 for dd rape and spring beans (possibly with different coulter setup) then find a 750a for dd wheat after rape and beans.

    This would work well in my WW,WOSR,Sp BNS,WW rotation with a cover crop after wheat and before spring beans?

  17. #17
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsewell View Post
    My thoughts are similar! Co4 for dd rape and spring beans (possibly with different coulter setup) then find a 750a for dd wheat after rape and beans.

    This would work well in my WW,WOSR,Sp BNS,WW rotation with a cover crop after wheat and before spring beans?
    Sorry that should be wheat, rape, wheat, spring beans

  18. #18
    fred
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsewell View Post
    Hi Fred, is that standard bean points?

    What fert kit are you using?

    Drilling every row or every other?

    Any pics of rape now?

    Cheers Tom
    Yes spaldings
    Techneat
    Every row
    Not yet but it's growing well

    It's not a modified bean coulter but just a plate bolted on to the leg with longer bolts

  19. #19
    155tm
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Watch those spalding bean feet I have been bending them, two last spring drilling beans and about 6 got a slight tweak this autumn drilling OSR, and they were not running at 1/2inch deep! ('twas hard though). It came through ok, but was drilled in September so slugs and cold wet soils have not helped.

    Tom, our spring beans last spring and the emergence of the OSR this autumn would suggest that the standard horsch (or Spalding copy) bean coulter may be the answer. Only problem is if you need to throw a second wheat in for some reason, but swapping back to duetts for that is not the end of the world.

    If anyone goes off to order bolts you need M14 not M12......

  20. #20
    FarmerDan
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartwig View Post
    Had a go with the GEN-openers with wheat into bean stubbles, worked well but massive soil disturbance on top, looks like lightly cultivated ! But certainly not bad for this years conditions.

    Unfortunately the drill gave up with an electronic problem on saturday afternoon, which the mechanics were not able to fix or even identify and then it rained again anyway.....
    After it dried up a little I had a go on sunday with my Moore, so I have a side-by-side comparison now, if it grows for wet, slugs, etc......
    Hartwig, did you encounter any problems with stones? Knockie seems to have modified his GEN coulters for this reason but has not elaborated...

    Are these coulters liable to shatter if they hit large stones (head-sized) or is it a wear issue?

    How much horsepower are you using, what width of drill and what soil type?

    Sorry for so many questions.

  21. #21
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Managed only to sow 30 ha so far and think that was it for this autumn with all the rain now.... had no trouble with stones as Soren had either. Knockie has fitted the "Sprinter"-type spring-tines which have double the release-force than the "CO"-type tines, that might make the difference !? To be honest, I`m totally surprised how floppy the stone protection / tines on the CO are, especially sideways : as I have actually the tines with one wing on one side fitted, the draft is not in the middle and it is often to see from the seat that tines move not 100% straight but a bit sideways.....looks strange and made me stop the first times to check that they were not bended......

    I`m with 125 HP in front of a CO3 airseeder with 10 kph with no problem even on slopes, but with not more than 800 kg in the hopper due to the very wet ground to reduce compaction and wheel-slip. Could imagine that my 100 HP that I use to have for my Moore could do well with the CO as well if it is drier some day.....but found it more comfortable with the one size bigger tractor on bigger tyres so might stick with that I guess.....

    Medium-heavy soil with sandy loam and some steeper slopes that have also sticky, yelow loam on top.

  22. #22
    knockie
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Firstly, sorry for not posting sooner, not been feeling that great and had a weeks holiday after another tiring and trying harvest!!
    In my view and experience this year the GEN openers are just what I was looking for in our conditions up here, yes I had a problem with stones and I will be working along with Soren to resolve the problem, I believe the factory are working on a more robust opener for Stony conditions, they have just now a heavier opener which Soren did suggest, but I liked the ones we went with as the point worked slightly deeper.
    The drill conversion was done as a last minute job and I was up against time from a start, when we started loosing points I had to act quick and made up the converted openers loosely based on a Horsch bean coulter with bucket face plate for wings and using the GEN seed boots.
    They have worked ok, but not as well as the proper GEN's.
    As Hartwig says the multigrip tines have a heavier breakback than the Co tines and I did wonder if I'd have been better with them. We had the 8m working with a demo JD7230 for a while and it seemed to manage ok.
    We drilled over 1000ac with it and all in all I'm very happy with it.
    The drill is back in the workshop just now ready for the winter mods.
    Anyway feel free to ask anything, and I'll try and get some more pics up.
    Hartwig will tell you it sometimes takes a while!!!
    Cheers.
    SD.

  23. #23
    155tm
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Hope you are feeling better soon Knockie, not a good season and half term week, I for one hadn't expected a reply yet!

    The older CO coulters moving sideways were a bonus as they would move round rocks. The new Sprinter springs stay in the ground and maintain a more even seeding depth, but because they are less flexible they do fire rocks at the back of the tractor on occasion!!!

  24. #24
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Just was out in the wet to see how much water is standing on the fields and took now a photo of the borderline between Moore-drilled and GEN-coulter-drilled as attached. Left side is Moore, right side is Horsch CO.

    Now after plenty of rain washed the residue clean again it seems not a real difference, all residue on top, only the coulters and two rows of harrows on the Horsch have moved all residue and left no standing stubbles which is behind the Moore.

  25. #25
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartwig View Post
    Just was out in the wet to see how much water is standing on the fields and took now a photo of the borderline between Moore-drilled and GEN-coulter-drilled as attached. Left side is Moore, right side is Horsch CO.

    Now after plenty of rain washed the residue clean again it seems not a real difference, all residue on top, only the coulters and two rows of harrows on the Horsch have moved all residue and left no standing stubbles which is behind the Moore.
    Is it an illusion or is it really drier after the horsch? It looks less 'washed'.

  26. #26
    FarmerDan
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Badshot View Post
    Is it an illusion or is it really drier after the horsch? It looks less 'washed'.
    I thought that too - GEN side looks less shiny.

    Possibly the tine coulters broke up any surface compaction?

    Thanks for posting the pic, Hartwig! Would be great to see a photo once both sides are emerged.

  27. #27
    solo
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Don't no much about the moore, but the gen coulters work a bit like a shakerator point. The wings are trying to pull the point in to the ground but also boil the soil upwards. They definitely don't look like a low disturbance point. If you want lower disturbance then the 1.5" point are the way to go, but the rows are 12" apart. Have yet to try my set of 6" gens as the demo field is too wet.

  28. #28
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by solo View Post
    If you want lower disturbance then the 1.5" point are the way to go
    ....that are the coulters I used there.....

    As the Moore is only pushing the soil down /squeezing or slicing it in wet soils, it might be that the soil lifted by the tines and crumbled by the harrows soaks up all the rain better !? It was not the right time yesterday to have a closer look as it started to drizzle already and I got really wet on my way back to the car.....

  29. #29
    Tim Fr
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartwig View Post
    Left side is Moore, right side is Horsch CO.

    Now after plenty of rain washed the residue clean again it seems not a real difference, all residue on top, only the coulters and two rows of harrows on the Horsch have moved all residue and left no standing stubbles which is behind the Moore.
    I am surprised at how little stubble you have behind the Moore, it's a job to see a drill has been in the field behind our Moore.

  30. #30
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: GEN coulters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Fr View Post
    I am surprised at how little stubble you have behind the Moore, it's a job to see a drill has been in the field behind our Moore.
    Attached the line where the Moore has run on the left side and untouched bean stubbles on the right - obviously visible that I can`t get any further with seeding before april, was lucky enough to get out for a photo on a dry (so far...) day !!
    Harvest was 7 weeks ago with nearly constant rain since then, so the RAINworms have pulled most residue away and maybe the slugs have eaten the stubbles......at least they`ve hollowed every single seed on the surface, hope they calm down with lower temperatures before the seed emerges - or I get a chance with some dry days to get on with another dose of pellets.

    Maybe the Moore has done more disturbance because of the wet - I remember that the discs where spinning soil around that just sticked to the discs, so some soil was simply thrown all over the machine width !?

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