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Thread: Cheviot x Blackface?

  1. #1
    Drtmoor36
    Guest

    Cheviot x Blackface?

    I'm thinking about putting a NC Cheviot on some Blackface ewes for replacements and was wondering what anyones opinion/experience is of this cross is? I thought in theory it should be a good cross but I read this article which says differently?
    http://www.bsas.org.uk/downloads/ann...df2005/041.pdf

  2. #2
    b slicker
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Regardless of what the NI work says, if you choose a good tup, and if they are decent Blackface ewes and well shepherded, then a Lairg type North Country Cheviot cross (or texel cross) will produce a far better lamb than a pure Blackface. I accept that a good Blackface entire lamb can sell well, but surplus ewe-lambs by the Cheviot willl sell as well as the wethers.

    There are a number of cheviot flocks which have been produced by continuous crossing with the Cheviot, so you can either stop at the first cross, or just continue top-crossing.

    Whatever you do, don't even consider using a Lleyn - not if you're a proper sheepman.

  3. #3
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Intresting read, some very odd results and very high losses inbetween birth and weaning. It also dosnt say what type of Cheviot was used, if it was a Park type then no wonder the results wernt good, Lairg type would be much better. It all so dosnt give any sale results, Chev or Tex cross lamb will be worth a tenner more as a store than a swale x and i woldent entertain a Llyn as a hill sheep.

    Hope others join the discussion

  4. #4
    b slicker
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tip View Post

    Hope others join the discussion
    That just about covers it. Especially the bit about the Lleyn.

  5. #5
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    There are a number of cheviot flocks which have been produced by continuous crossing with the Cheviot, so you can either stop at the first cross, or just continue top-crossing.

    Mine included. took on a hill flock of Blakies, took instant dislike to the things and soon bred them out

  6. #6
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    Regardless of what the NI work says, if you choose a good tup, and if they are decent Blackface ewes and well shepherded, then a Lairg type North Country Cheviot cross (or texel cross) will produce a far better lamb than a pure Blackface. I accept that a good Blackface entire lamb can sell well, but surplus ewe-lambs by the Cheviot willl sell as well as the wethers.

    There are a number of cheviot flocks which have been produced by continuous crossing with the Cheviot, so you can either stop at the first cross, or just continue top-crossing.

    Whatever you do, don't even consider using a Lleyn - not if you're a proper sheepman.
    x2

  7. #7
    spark_28
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    the cheviot crossed with anything is good imo, and even more so onto a good maternal ewe like a BF.

  8. #8
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    That just about covers it. Especially the bit about the Lleyn.
    Whats wrong with the Lleyn cross Blackie? I know of one large place who cross their blackies with Lleyns and the ewes are tremendous sheep, prolific, milkey, growthy and fleshy, a big improvement on the blackies.

    Having said that the Cheviot x Blackie is probably the best of the hill sheep.

  9. #9
    eire22
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Whats wrong with the Lleyn cross Blackie? I know of one large place who cross their blackies with Lleyns and the ewes are tremendous sheep, prolific, milkey, growthy and fleshy, a big improvement on the blackies.

    Having said that the Cheviot x Blackie is probably the best of the hill sheep.
    Im wondering the same thing? last year was our first year to use lleyn x blackies. Before that we always used wicklow cheviots.
    Theres very little difference to look at in the lambs from each breed. Hopefully the lleyns will turn out every bit as good a sheep as the cheviot cross without been as wild

  10. #10
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Whats wrong with the Lleyn cross Blackie? I know of one large place who cross their blackies with Lleyns and the ewes are tremendous sheep, prolific, milkey, growthy and fleshy, a big improvement on the blackies.

    Having said that the Cheviot x Blackie is probably the best of the hill sheep.

    The man just doesnt like them and likes to take digs. Usually the tactics of someone on the back foot when something comes along to rival their belief of whats best. All sheep have their place, and anyone who works with sheep is a sheep man, just some arnt stuck up their own arse.

    As youve said Dan the lleyn x out of a blackie is a damned good sheep. Our wedders were usually the first lambs off the farm fat, and sold as well as any texel fat lamb.

    Re. the chev x blackie, if you get yourself a good Lairg type northie theyl be grand sheep. Just give it a try, if you go on small scale (just 1 tup, and just 40 or 50 ewes) the first year then the worst will be some crap lambs and sell the tup if it doesnt work for you. And if its a success, get another tup and put them out with a good bunhc of ewes

  11. #11
    b slicker
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Whats wrong with the Lleyn cross Blackie?
    In this area the Lleyn has had more than ample opportunity to make its mark as an alternative to the traditional breeds either as a pure breed or for crossing with hill breeds. It has failed to make any permanent impact and in fact seems to be in terminal decline.

    There will still be a few who use a Lleyn on hoggs for easy lambing, and there are certainly cases where it has helped improve the fertility of South Country Cheviots. But apart from that, it is difficult to see any advantages.

    It is certainly not a sensible alternative to the BFL or NCC for crossing with Blackface ewes. It might just be marginally superior to the Highlander.

    At the local marts with buyers from most parts of the UK, a good Mule ewe-lamb this last September might have made 110. From previous experience, I would guess that Lleyn cross out of the same ewes and brought out to the same standard would have been lucky to make 70.

  12. #12
    NeilO
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    The man just doesnt like them and likes to take digs. Usually the tactics of someone on the back foot when something comes along to rival their belief of whats best. All sheep have their place, and anyone who works with sheep is a sheep man, just some arnt stuck up their own arse.

    As youve said Dan the lleyn x out of a blackie is a damned good sheep. Our wedders were usually the first lambs off the farm fat, and sold as well as any texel fat lamb.
    You question BSlicker knocking the Lleyn, then you knock those slow growing, white faced things.

  13. #13
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    You question BSlicker knocking the Lleyn, then you knock those slow growing, white faced things.

    Whos knocking the texel? I certainly amnt.

  14. #14
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    In this area the Lleyn has had more than ample opportunity to make its mark as an alternative to the traditional breeds either as a pure breed or for crossing with hill breeds. It has failed to make any permanent impact and in fact seems to be in terminal decline.

    There will still be a few who use a Lleyn on hoggs for easy lambing, and there are certainly cases where it has helped improve the fertility of South Country Cheviots. But apart from that, it is difficult to see any advantages.

    It is certainly not a sensible alternative to the BFL or NCC for crossing with Blackface ewes. It might just be marginally superior to the Highlander.

    At the local marts with buyers from most parts of the UK, a good Mule ewe-lamb this last September might have made 110. From previous experience, I would guess that Lleyn cross out of the same ewes and brought out to the same standard would have been lucky to make 70.
    +1

    I have nothing against Llyn as a breed in the right location but they are getting less again round here as they dont seem to be able to cope with the rain, bad wool and feet. Only know of one proper hill farmer using them and he has gone back to the cheviot as they were to soft even as a cross with the Herdwick.

  15. #15
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Whats wrong with the Lleyn cross Blackie? I know of one large place who cross their blackies with Lleyns and the ewes are tremendous sheep, prolific, milkey, growthy and fleshy, a big improvement on the blackies.

    Having said that the Cheviot x Blackie is probably the best of the hill sheep.
    Go to Lanark and ask a Blackface Breeder.

  16. #16
    NeilO
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    Whos knocking the texel? I certainly amnt.
    Lleyns away faster?

  17. #17
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    Lleyns away faster?

    Aw Neil your not one of them whos been sucked into believing Lleyns take a year to fatten and are so sloooow to grow, are you? There was only ever a week or two in it, but yes they were easy to fleshen and put on weight quickly compared to other breeds iv tried coming off the same ground in the same system. Maybe i dont actually have Lleyns......

  18. #18
    cheviot53
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    So far chx lambs have ave 5 more than same wt bf , 2kg more on ave wt. The cull ewes ave 10 more ( the last sale chx made double of the bf, and i thought the bf were the fitter ) fleece wts are heavier and worth more . The ch x's don't eat any more , and no increase in lambing problems, small increase in lambing %

  19. #19
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by hilly bill View Post
    Go to Lanark and ask a Blackface Breeder.
    Ask them what?

  20. #20
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Ask them what?
    Ask them what is wrong with a Llyen cross blackie.

  21. #21
    NZDan
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by hilly bill View Post
    Ask them what is wrong with a Llyen cross blackie.
    Its not a bonnie faced Blackie?:lolk::lolk:
    But seriously what is wrong with them? i scan plenty and while they don't suit everyone they still seem a pretty decent sheep.

  22. #22
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by hilly bill View Post
    Go to Lanark and ask a Blackface Breeder.

    You mean ask them boys who have a vested interest in breeding mules, so they can keep the blackie breed going??

    Thats like walking into a MF dealership and asking the salesman if New Holland are the best tractors around

  23. #23
    Junior Member
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    Re: Cheviot x Blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by cheviot53 View Post
    So far chx lambs have ave 5 more than same wt bf , 2kg more on ave wt. The cull ewes ave 10 more ( the last sale chx made double of the bf, and i thought the bf were the fitter ) fleece wts are heavier and worth more . The ch x's don't eat any more , and no increase in lambing problems, small increase in lambing %
    To resurrect this....I'd disagree have always found the backface Perth more prolific than the Cheviot ??

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