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Thread: sumo dts

  1. #1
    Yorkie3
    Guest

    sumo dts

    saw youtube of above, looks to do a good job what is general opinion ? very little stagger so trash clearance and wet working may be a problem will the leading disc help.Coulters are independent so should get a good consistent depth. y3

  2. #2
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    That's about my take on it tbh Yorkie. Surely stagger would make it easier to pull? Looks a great tool otherwise, be good to see some more detailed pics of the coulter area? The vids are great, but don't show the type of the point etc

  3. #3
    pylon dodger
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Maybe it don't need as much stagger as the drilling tine seem to run a lot closer to the leading tine than other drills on the market. From what i've seen all the clips are taken in wet conditions and the drill seems to cope well.

  4. #4
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Very true pylon dodger, and it does seem to cope well. It'd be nice to see a normal sized tractor matched to one though, ie the claimed 50/60hp/m. Most folk have a prime mover of maybe 160/80hp, how about seeing a 3m on 150hp, or a 4m on 200? We don't all have access to 300+ hp and tracks and 000's of ac to play in.

    Does tine stagger have an influence on draft force? Someone brighter than I will surely explain the physics?

    If the tines are all in a row, surely it's trying to force all the soil through the tines at once? Whereas it's more gradual with a staggered pattern? We used to have an old 3 leg subsoiler with a similar problem, it's easier to pull 5 legs staggered properly than 3 legs in a row, ime anyway.

  5. #5
    Oscar
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    It would be good to see the resulting crop as all these pictures and videos look cracking but its the result that counts !!PS, I don t just mean Sumo but all makes of drills. My 120 acs of Claydon OSR looked great the day it was drilled but it looks the same today 2 and a bit months later ie 100% crop failure!!!

  6. #6
    sumomarv
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkie3 View Post
    saw youtube of above, looks to do a good job what is general opinion ? very little stagger so trash clearance and wet working may be a problem will the leading disc help.Coulters are independent so should get a good consistent depth. y3
    We decided to stagger the coulters front to back, together with 333mm row spacing this gives very good trash clearence and lower draught requirement than if all tines were in a row as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. More stagger than this would actually be detrimental to trash flow on the rear sets of coulters, and would also increase transport height considerably.

    The leading disc, which also acts as part of the depth guide for the coulter, makes a massive difference to the performance of the machine.

    We found little or no material hangs around the leg, we also made it adjustable so you can increase or decrease the pressure on it depending on soil conditions.

    Placing the loosening leg directly infront of the seed boot reduces draught further an also keeps the whole coulter system more compact.

    Marv.

  7. #7
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    It would be good to see the resulting crop as all these pictures and videos look cracking but its the result that counts !!PS, I don t just mean Sumo but all makes of drills. My 120 acs of Claydon OSR looked great the day it was drilled but it looks the same today 2 and a bit months later ie 100% crop failure!!!
    Slugs?

  8. #8
    Oscar
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Slugs did nt help but I ve not grown OSR for 8 years and never use bait until this year. I think most died due to the wet, 5 inchs 5 days after drilling/rolling plus another 15 inchs since has meant it never had dry feet. The fields are wetter now than both ploughed/PH ground and pure stubble so I think it has just filled the 7 inch slot with water which for some reason [smearing ?] can t drain away.
    Obviously a very costly c..k up but to be honest I think that what ever tillage or drill I had used would have most likely ended up the same way so not condeming the Claydon 100% but don t think I will bother again, sorry Devon James! I think the difference this year is pure drilling date, any rape drilled before 5 th September seems to be ok [under slug pressure] but that drilled after is /has failed, mine went in 15th-18th September.

  9. #9
    Krampeman
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Slugs did nt help but I ve not grown OSR for 8 years and never use bait until this year. I think most died due to the wet, 5 inchs 5 days after drilling/rolling plus another 15 inchs since has meant it never had dry feet. The fields are wetter now than both ploughed/PH ground and pure stubble so I think it has just filled the 7 inch slot with water which for some reason [smearing ?] can t drain away.
    Obviously a very costly c..k up but to be honest I think that what ever tillage or drill I had used would have most likely ended up the same way so not condeming the Claydon 100% but don t think I will bother again, sorry Devon James! I think the difference this year is pure drilling date, any rape drilled before 5 th September seems to be ok [under slug pressure] but that drilled after is /has failed, mine went in 15th-18th September.
    Same problems I had over 3 years with it. Just won't go in proper heavy land as we need to get air into it so if it then does rain hard after the drill the water can filtrate downwards. The Mzuri does not suffer from this though as the tine can run deeper and does more work than the claydons front tine.

    Don't be put off by it and try a Mzuri or now the Sumo DTS as it does a similar job.

  10. #10
    kpa
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Slugs did nt help but I ve not grown OSR for 8 years and never use bait until this year. I think most died due to the wet, 5 inchs 5 days after drilling/rolling plus another 15 inchs since has meant it never had dry feet. The fields are wetter now than both ploughed/PH ground and pure stubble so I think it has just filled the 7 inch slot with water which for some reason [smearing ?] can t drain away.
    Obviously a very costly c..k up but to be honest I think that what ever tillage or drill I had used would have most likely ended up the same way so not condeming the Claydon 100% but don t think I will bother again, sorry Devon James! I think the difference this year is pure drilling date, any rape drilled before 5 th September seems to be ok [under slug pressure] but that drilled after is /has failed, mine went in 15th-18th September.
    We never had a slug a problem before we grew OSR after straw incorporation.

    Sorry to hear about your crop failure. I would say that the latest safe date for direct drilling OSR is 31st.August, preferably two weeks before that. A rule in my book after six now seven years DD with a Claydon, is drill two weeks+ earlier than with conventional drill. I'd add that if this is your first season, don't start DD if it looks like being a wet Autumn following a wet Summer. In the Spring wait until soil temperature is 8deg.+ and looks like staying that way. The soil improves the longer you've been doing it.

  11. #11
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by kpa View Post
    We never had a slug a problem before we grew OSR after straw incorporation.

    Sorry to hear about your crop failure. I would say that the latest safe date for direct drilling OSR is 31st.August, preferably two weeks before that. A rule in my book after six now seven years DD with a Claydon, is drill two weeks+ earlier than with conventional drill. I'd add that if this is your first season, don't start DD if it looks like being a wet Autumn following a wet Summer. In the Spring wait until soil temperature is 8deg.+ and looks like staying that way. The soil improves the longer you've been doing it.
    +1. That's good advice, simply put.

  12. #12
    T_M
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    We had this out on Friday, into quite wet Osr stubble, we drilled 50 acres in not much time, it was 8 metres wide and we had 450 hp on the front, it didn't really need that much hp.

    I think there is lots of stagger about a foot, one of the best things is the coulter units are towed from the frame and can all float independently, and also the amount of pressure placed on them can be altered to give more or less float

    It did a very good job all things considered, I would like to get it back in the spring to try some spring beans and would seriously consider putting an order in for one if that goes ok.

    And as a comparison the Claydon hybrid wouldn't work and the vaddy wouldn't run either.

  13. #13
    Johndeere
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    We had this out on Friday, into quite wet Osr stubble, we drilled 50 acres in not much time, it was 8 metres wide and we had 450 hp on the front, it didn't really need that much hp.

    I think there is lots of stagger about a foot, one of the best things is the coulter units are towed from the frame and can all float independently, and also the amount of pressure placed on them can be altered to give more or less float

    It did a very good job all things considered, I would like to get it back in the spring to try some spring beans and would seriously consider putting an order in for one if that goes ok.

    And as a comparison the Claydon hybrid wouldn't work and the vaddy wouldn't run either.
    I must of seen it on your cat on Thursday, I was impressed and have ordered a 4 metre for delivery February. Build quality is what you expect from sumo.

  14. #14
    Kungen
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    I have to say that the DTS seems to be a very good drill!
    My question is about strip till and spring cropping. To put fertiliser on when youre drilling is probably best and im sure Sumo are coming out with some kind of solution for that. But, and this goes to you guys with 750s and Moores as well - are there not a big loss of N etc in the spring if some of it are left on the top and no rain after drilling?

  15. #15
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by sumomarv View Post
    We decided to stagger the coulters front to back, together with 333mm row spacing this gives very good trash clearence and lower draught requirement than if all tines were in a row as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. More stagger than this would actually be detrimental to trash flow on the rear sets of coulters, and would also increase transport height considerably.

    The leading disc, which also acts as part of the depth guide for the coulter, makes a massive difference to the performance of the machine.

    We found little or no material hangs around the leg, we also made it adjustable so you can increase or decrease the pressure on it depending on soil conditions.

    Placing the loosening leg directly infront of the seed boot reduces draught further an also keeps the whole coulter system more compact.

    Marv.
    Thanks Marv, that's cleared some fog! Any pics of the coulter area?

  16. #16
    Devon James
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Slugs did nt help but I ve not grown OSR for 8 years and never use bait until this year. I think most died due to the wet, 5 inchs 5 days after drilling/rolling plus another 15 inchs since has meant it never had dry feet. The fields are wetter now than both ploughed/PH ground and pure stubble so I think it has just filled the 7 inch slot with water which for some reason [smearing ?] can t drain away.
    Obviously a very costly c..k up but to be honest I think that what ever tillage or drill I had used would have most likely ended up the same way so not condeming the Claydon 100% but don t think I will bother again, sorry Devon James! I think the difference this year is pure drilling date, any rape drilled before 5 th September seems to be ok [under slug pressure] but that drilled after is /has failed, mine went in 15th-18th September.
    As mentioned while drilling some of the fields it was asking alot of the drill to get a perfect result, compaction/tight, cold soil- did my best and I didnt want to drill some of them!

    I dont like taking all of the credit when a wonder crop is grown, nor do I want to take 100% of the blame when it doesnt work out! The weather 20th September onwards was extremely challenging for all crops under any establishment method.

    Ploughed/combi rape looks sick too so a shocking autumn all round.

  17. #17
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johndeere View Post
    I must of seen it on your cat on Thursday, I was impressed and have ordered a 4 metre for delivery February. Build quality is what you expect from sumo.
    Thought you were getting a Mzuri JD?

  18. #18
    Johndeere
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    I was then viewed the dts last week and quickly had a change of heart

  19. #19
    Dalers
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Slugs did nt help but I ve not grown OSR for 8 years and never use bait until this year. I think most died due to the wet, 5 inchs 5 days after drilling/rolling plus another 15 inchs since has meant it never had dry feet. The fields are wetter now than both ploughed/PH ground and pure stubble so I think it has just filled the 7 inch slot with water which for some reason [smearing ?] can t drain away.
    Obviously a very costly c..k up but to be honest I think that what ever tillage or drill I had used would have most likely ended up the same way so not condeming the Claydon 100% but don t think I will bother again, sorry Devon James! I think the difference this year is pure drilling date, any rape drilled before 5 th September seems to be ok [under slug pressure] but that drilled after is /has failed, mine went in 15th-18th September.
    This is just like me, I drilled some WB with the Claydon and that looks scruffy but the PH combi WB looks great, ordered some Spring Oats as not much hope for lots of my OSR drilled with the Claydon.
    Live & learn.

  20. #20
    Badshot
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalers View Post
    This is just like me, I drilled some WB with the Claydon and that looks scruffy but the PH combi WB looks great, ordered some Spring Oats as not much hope for lots of my OSR drilled with the Claydon.
    Live & learn.
    It really isn't the year to be basing any decisions on, I've DD'd all my wheat so far with a tineseeder. The first 2 fields are ridiculously good, embarassingly so actually. The next 2, which were drilled just 48hrs later and right next to the first 2 have taken an extra 10 days to get out of the ground, they are being attacked by slugs and some seed has rotted so look scruffy in comparison. The next 50 acre block is as good as the first 50 acres drilled 72 hours after the first lot, there is no right or wrong way this year it is luck and conditions at and immediately after drilling.

    I have some combi drilled stuff just coming up now, in fact the headland was drilled with the TS as the powerharrow had a bearing go on the first run round the headland, so an interesting comparison to be had there. Certainly the 15 odd acres done with the combi used as much/more fuel as the 100 acres done with the TS.

  21. #21
    Oscar
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Devon James, as I said in my post , Im not blaiming you or the drill, it was late to drill in not the best soil conditions and the weather since has been pants. As Dalers says,"Live and learn "
    PS like the look of the DTS!!!

  22. #22
    Devon James
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Devon James, as I said in my post , Im not blaiming you or the drill, it was late to drill in not the best soil conditions and the weather since has been pants. As Dalers says,"Live and learn "
    PS like the look of the DTS!!!

    Know you werent, but gutted my efforts havent given the results you were after. Worst year since started with the C since 2007, shame I didnt do some for you last autumn.

    Wheat here now coming through.

    DTS will be interesting to try when I get a chance.

  23. #23
    moldengineer
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Perhaps this year has shown that the "strip till" drills are not versatile enough for adverse conditions. And who knows when they will occur? I think that amazone may have the better approach, do the strip till first then drill at a date that suits soil conditions and crop type. Yes the one pass approach works with osr but for cereals perhaps not. This would lead to 2 passes perhaps even 3 if a rake or carrier type operation were carried out but I would say that drilling output would be significantly increased without the need for huge hp, and the drilling bit is the most important.

    My experience this year with a demo strip till drill in the spring and my own adapted drill in the autumn has shown me that spring strip till drilling was a disaster compared to shakerating in the autumn then vaderstad in the spring. My own drill was used to establish osr which has come well but am glad we stuck to min till (amazone tine cultivator) after the combine then drilled with the Vaderstad when conditions have allowed. I feel that trying to drag a strip till drill through now would be impossible and would be doing a poor job.

    I would like to see a twin hopper with a strip till tool bar attached. This would apply my p and k according to SOYL maps and prepare my field for drilling. The same twin hopper would then be used with a drilling tool bar to apply n and seed at the appropriate time.

  24. #24
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Report in the FG of Sumo open day is good, with pics of the DTS tine and coulter arrangement, looks a very straight, none lifting tine, though not necessarily a bad thing. I'm surprised the guys at Sumo haven't some decent close up shots of the important bits for those not able to see the drill in the flesh at the open day. Great videos of fields turning brown but no real detail of how it all happens, seed placement, wearing parts etc.
    Sumomarv?

    Regards, Spud

  25. #25
    sumomarv
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    Report in the FG of Sumo open day is good, with pics of the DTS tine and coulter arrangement, looks a very straight, none lifting tine, though not necessarily a bad thing. I'm surprised the guys at Sumo haven't some decent close up shots of the important bits for those not able to see the drill in the flesh at the open day. Great videos of fields turning brown but no real detail of how it all happens, seed placement, wearing parts etc.
    Sumomarv?

    Regards, Spud
    Mr Spud,

    We realise we have not published any close up pictures, these will be coming probably after LAMMA when the DTS gets its first proper public airing, although the pictures already published by the press go into a fair bit of detail.

    You are more than welcome to come and have a look at the drill at the factory before then, and we also now have a reasonable amount of land locally drilled that is up and away, so you are more than welcome, please come and have a look.

    Marv.

  26. #26
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    I think you will do well with them marv

  27. #27
    Enry
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johndeere View Post
    I must of seen it on your cat on Thursday, I was impressed and have ordered a 4 metre for delivery February. Build quality is what you expect from sumo.
    So what swung it...? You seemed quite keen on the Mzuri a few months ago. Interested to hear from someone who has seen/tried both

  28. #28
    Johndeere
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Enry View Post
    So what swung it...? You seemed quite keen on the Mzuri a few months ago. Interested to hear from someone who has seen/tried both
    Yes got very close to having the mzuri which is still a very good drill, the Dts came out and my dealer knew I was keen on strip till and put a good case forward. He took me to Lincoln to see the drill and talk with marv, the drill is so well made as you expect with sumo kit. Better priced, longer lasting wearing parts, two cameras plus the sumo clothing swung the deal

  29. #29
    DEERE RUNNER
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johndeere View Post
    Yes got very close to having the mzuri which is still a very good drill, the Dts came out and my dealer knew I was keen on strip till and put a good case forward. He took me to Lincoln to see the drill and talk with marv, the drill is so well made as you expect with sumo kit. Better priced, longer lasting wearing parts, two cameras plus the sumo clothing swung the deal
    Who was the dealer you bought the machine from?

  30. #30
    7810 pilot
    Guest

    Re: sumo dts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johndeere View Post
    Yes got very close to having the mzuri which is still a very good drill, the Dts came out and my dealer knew I was keen on strip till and put a good case forward. He took me to Lincoln to see the drill and talk with marv, the drill is so well made as you expect with sumo kit. Better priced, longer lasting wearing parts, two cameras plus the sumo clothing swung the deal

    its coming jd ,thought it would drown with all rain it had after mauling it in ,
    1st ,4 are dts into some very sticky clay loam ,after maize , rest of field is ploughed and awaiting some sun and wind .
    next 3 are our little mzuri patch would have done rest of field but the vomit they brought on drill could not pull it on the real sticky bits ,and last one was rest of field ,trio and combi ,

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