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Thread: ford 4600 engine trouble

  1. #1
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    ford 4600 engine trouble

    After some ideas because im nearly out of them.

    I have a ford 4600, 3 cylinder that i have just rebuilt.
    She has had

    crankshaft
    bearings
    oil pump
    rebored and sleeved to standard
    pistons
    rings
    valves
    injectors and pump serviced.

    Trouble is takes a few seconds to start, and whte smoke from exhaust port 2 and 3. 1 burning lovely. meanwhile you cant rev it at all.
    After a about 15 seconds 3 clears up and you can rev. then after a few minutes and when she is warm runs lovely.

    Compression at cranking speed 330psi
    fuel system checked by another company and they are fine.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    farmer palmer
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Sounds like air getting in the fuel system somehow,try putting a clear bit of pipe from the filter to the injector pump and look for bubbles.

  3. #3
    btd-6
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Are you sure you have the valve clearances set correctly? IIRC inlet is 0.15 and exhaust 0.18

  4. #4
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    valves set to the book

    Didnt think about fuel as if you take the injectors out number 1 is carboned up and 2 and 3 are soaking wet so the fuel isnt getting burned.

    Was wondering if the crankshaft had been machined correctly as number 1 is a beautifully clean burn

  5. #5
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    I don't really know but might it not need to bed in if you have just rebuilt it.

  6. #6
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    has crossed my mind to give it some hard work to do for a few hours and see what happens.

    It runs so sweet when it warms up, thats whats confusing me

  7. #7
    Newholland
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    So when engine is warm it runs 100% and not a hint of a problem?

    would you not be thinking the timing must be out some how? - valves / timing marks is my guess - somewhere, something is slightly out or put back in the wrong order.

    So long as compression is all 100% correct, then thats not the worry, otherwise thats where I would be thinking about first.

    How would Crankshaft machining make such a huge difference to produce your situation?

    If you had fuel problems, then I would have thought that would still happen when engine is hot.

    The thermostart is not stuck open or anything random? Not really your situation, but just thinking out loud.

  8. #8
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    just thought that if the no1 big end was correct with timing mark but the other 2 were a few degrees out when cast and machined. I know highly unlikely but dont know where else to look.

    Timing was correct with pop marks on gears
    Compression is 330 even across all 3 cylinders

    When running and smoking i slackened the pump to rotate but ran rougher when moved off the 0 mark.

    I also think timing but if marks are lined up how can it be wrong. Also would it not make all cylinders smoke?

  9. #9
    deere2140
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Something a bit puzzling . From your symptoms I'd say a lack of compression , which hinders cold starting , but which doesn't harm warm running . And a likely cause in a recent rebuild is cutting the valves too deep , ie the valves are too deep in the head . Its great to cut the valves but not if they allow the valves to too far in you'll lose compression .
    But the puzzling thing is the 330 psi cranking compression . That's well over 20 x atmospheric pressure . I think your gauge is dodgy . Your Ford shouldn't have much over 220 psi .

  10. #10
    Newholland
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Sorry, I was thinking you had used the original engine crankshaft and just had it reground etc.
    Yes, if you have a brand new crank then see what you mean.

    New cast parts do come through faulty for sure.
    That timing gear on the crank just could be in the wrong place one way or another

    Thats going to be difficult to sort out. Are you on genuine or sparex etc?

  11. #11
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    deere2140

    New valves but origional seats, i see what you mean if they are too deep into the head you would have more spave in your chamber creating less pressure but the workshop manual says 350psi +/-50psi.

    New holland

    new crank, aftermarket from a company called emark uk.
    Think im going to have to have it out and get it measured.

  12. #12
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    So is the compression close on all 3 from cold?

  13. #13
    Cowabunga
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    It could still be the injectors or pump. I've seen it before when 'specialists' are meant to have checked or even reconditioned these things and they come back worse than the originals that went in. Or they might even be the original sent back faulty.

  14. #14
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    compression reading are from cold on all 3

    Injector pump was overhauled by one company and checked by another and he said he couldnt fault it.

  15. #15
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    That really only leaves the injectors.

    Swap 1 to 3 and see if the cold misfire moves.

  16. #16
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    injectors checked also and confirmed good but i did swap them and the clean burn stayed on cylinder 1.

  17. #17
    Timbo_1975
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Mechanical issue then. Head back off.

  18. #18
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    but would have thought if compression readings were good that would rule out anything like that?

  19. #19
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    If not too bad I think I would run and use for a little while. TBH we have a IH and a Ford engine that both miss and smoke a little on cold start but clear and run all day. Symptoms never as bad in warmer weather.The Ford (4CYL) does not use oil but the IH does and always has from new.

  20. #20
    Footsfitter
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo_1975 View Post
    Mechanical issue then. Head back off.

    +1 - looks like mechanical.

    Was the head pressure tested??

    New guides with the valves?

    Were all the pistons out of the same packaging? Measure up their height with each at TDC out of interest.

    Are the compression rings handed or can be fitted either way up?


    ff



    ,
    .

  21. #21
    Ad
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    +1 - looks like mechanical.



    Were all the pistons out of the same packaging? Measure up their height with each at TDC out of interest.
    ,
    .
    Had same symptoms with a ford 4000, for some reason the conrod on no3 must have been bent as the piston sat slightly lower than the other 2 hence it would only fire on 2 until it was warm.

  22. #22
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    head pressure wasnt tested
    didnt get valve guides no
    pistonsv were from same boxes and rings were handed and fitted as per instructions.

    as for piston heights, if a rod was bent causing it to not come up as far would the compression not be different in that cylinder?


    thanks for all your sugestions everyone.

  23. #23
    sparks
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Just an idea check the timing i know very little about ford engines is the 4600 the same ish as a 550 digger ? the reason years ago a chap brought a 550 here to give it a bit of work after a rebuild engine all done up properly drove here pulled well etc but to start cold was a problem these engines are usually good, same symptoms as yours smoked white smoke etc then went the best warm so injectors sent away pump done up then we went through the fuel side nothing sorted it i was nt there when it was fixed but was told ther were 2 sets of timing marks on the timing gears or maybe it was timing gears out of a 4 cylinder i cant remember now, but when she was timed up right it never looked back . Another thing it did before it was re timed was if you made it pull at night it would spark and have a slight flame from the exhaust glow the bottom of the pipe too

  24. #24
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    going to take front end to bits hopefully tomorrow so ill check the timing again and check piston heights as sugested.

    thanks

  25. #25
    Footsfitter
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad View Post
    Had same symptoms with a ford 4000, for some reason the conrod on no3 must have been bent as the piston sat slightly lower than the other 2 hence it would only fire on 2 until it was warm.
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobyjim View Post
    head pressure wasnt tested
    didnt get valve guides no
    pistonsv were from same boxes and rings were handed and fitted as per instructions.

    as for piston heights, if a rod was bent causing it to not come up as far would the compression not be different in that cylinder?


    thanks for all your sugestions everyone.

    We're sort of clutching at straws here, but that was my thought and why I queried the piston heights.

    I don't know if you know all the history of it, but we are even more in the dark, but its always a good start to go back and check everything including the basics. Never rule anything out until 110% sure


    ff


    .

  26. #26
    diogenes
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Is there any possibility that you have fitted two of the pistons wrong way round? i.e. with the bowl on the wrong side?? D.

  27. #27
    rs chunk
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    Someone fitted all the pistons the wrong way round on my 4000. We wondered why she had a right hard crack of it when running! Had the head off for another reason and spotted they were in the wrong way.

  28. #28
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    The above posts may be on to something. The compression might not be altered but presumably the burn would be and then disguised whe engine is hotter.

  29. #29
    scoobyjim
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    I dont know the history as we recently bought it and it was running like a dog and breathing heavy hense the overhaul.

    piston direction has crossed my mind too but 99% sure they will be right, dont think im that daft but cant remember. Checked heights with vernier through injector holes and they were the same. havnt had time to check timing yet.

  30. #30
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: ford 4600 engine trouble

    I have not seen the head off one of these for years but could you feel with, say a kebab stick, thro' the injector hole to the top of the pistons to get an idea of the piston orientation?

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