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Thread: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

  1. #1
    Col
    Guest

    Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    I have about 100 acres of vining peas every year, they are usually off by late July. Any opinions on what would be a good cover to hold the N there until I drill wheat. I usually spread some chicken litter as well. Light land and some risk of free living nematode damage in areas, so is there anything that may help with that. Don't really want a brassica for the clubroot risk, also already got lots of sclerotinia susceptible crops on the place as well.
    My thoughts were to use some barley seed, whatevers in the shed really.
    Any ideas.

  2. #2
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Col View Post
    I have about 100 acres of vining peas every year, they are usually off by late July. Any opinions on what would be a good cover to hold the N there until I drill wheat. I usually spread some chicken litter as well. Light land and some risk of free living nematode damage in areas, so is there anything that may help with that. Don't really want a brassica for the clubroot risk, also already got lots of sclerotinia susceptible crops on the place as well.
    My thoughts were to use some barley seed, whatevers in the shed really.
    Any ideas.
    why not try something like a sunflower phacellia oats mix ...you shouldn't need the N fixing part but Vetches could be useful too to help balance the C:N ..
    the problem with just using a grass or cereal on its own is that it locks up the N for too long as its high carbon and takes too long to break down and uses available N too whilst its doing so robbing your growing wheat of it ...

  3. #3
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Col View Post
    I have about 100 acres of vining peas every year, they are usually off by late July. Any opinions on what would be a good cover to hold the N there until I drill wheat. I usually spread some chicken litter as well. Light land and some risk of free living nematode damage in areas, so is there anything that may help with that. Don't really want a brassica for the clubroot risk, also already got lots of sclerotinia susceptible crops on the place as well.
    My thoughts were to use some barley seed, whatevers in the shed really.
    Any ideas.
    Just some thoughts. Always use mixes.
    Now a mix of:

    • Black oats (Avena Strigosa)
    • tillage Radish (preferably) (or other radish) as Radish is a big N scavenger
    • buck wheat
    • Phacelia
    • sunflower (more for the public)
    • fooder peas

    will give you the thing what you want to achive. Maybe a vetch as well.
    Point is I would not be tooo worried of the club root or other deseases. They will not be increased in a mix, rather decreased. More importently will be a good S & Cu supply to "fight" this. And 100 S (not SO3) will be just the right dose for your vining peas and increase there sweetness.
    Wheat needs 35 - 45 kg N/Ha till the end of tillering,
    York-Th.

  4. #4
    JD_Kid
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    sclerotinia susceptible crops
    sunflowers ??????????? last thing i'd be planting

    barley if it's in yer shed and clean , cheap and cheerfull weed strike is going to add to the mix and gives a chance to control them pre drilling of wheat ..

    if lighter ground are you better banking rainfall pre drill

  5. #5
    Col
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Just some thoughts. Always use mixes.
    Now a mix of:

    • Black oats (Avena Strigosa)
    • tillage Radish (preferably) (or other radish) as Radish is a big N scavenger
    • buck wheat
    • Phacelia
    • sunflower (more for the public)
    • fooder peas
    will give you the thing what you want to achive. Maybe a vetch as well.
    Point is I would not be tooo worried of the club root or other deseases. They will not be increased in a mix, rather decreased. More importently will be a good S & Cu supply to "fight" this. And 100 S (not SO3) will be just the right dose for your vining peas and increase there sweetness.
    Wheat needs 35 - 45 kg N/Ha till the end of tillering,
    York-Th.
    The thing is York, the fields for peas are rented out, there are two pea growers nearby, between them they grow maybe 12,000 to 13,000 acres of peas and beans. They don't put any fert on for the peas at all. Maybe they are missing a trick, they always claim that the peas leave behind a lot of N,but I'm not so sure, ok it's good for getting the crop growing but there is going to be some P and K used by the peas surely.
    I alwyas put a hefty dose of broiler litter on after the peas as the ground is free for it so some sort of cover would soak up the nutrients.
    This cover would only be in the ground for a short time as I like to have as much as possible drilled before end of september, unless I leave it until the spring which is a possibility. The field in question is 110 acres and will be 50% peas and the rest will be strawed carrots so I could put the whole field into s. oats for 2014. The half in peas is a lot heavier.

  6. #6
    Col
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Kid View Post
    sclerotinia susceptible crops
    sunflowers ??????????? last thing i'd be planting

    barley if it's in yer shed and clean , cheap and cheerfull weed strike is going to add to the mix and gives a chance to control them pre drilling of wheat ..

    if lighter ground are you better banking rainfall pre drill
    Some and some, changes from light enough for carrots in some parts to ideal wheat ground on others. This field was originally 5 or 6 a long time ago and those boys must have known something Not much problem with banking rainfall the last few years, can be a problem in the spring, now and again we get wind blow.

  7. #7
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    as I said, we are not affraid of this soil born things in a cover crop mix & also with the help of some nutritional aspects.
    Concerning the fertilising the peas I would look how much nodules they have. If large & active there will be N accumulated. You can see how active the nodules are when you push them with your nail and then they will turn to read, like blood.
    We have seen peee in need of N and needed to be treated like a wheat with no N coming from the nodules.
    One of the major nutrients for nodulation is S!
    Time: I would see it a little flexible. Best accumulation for cover crops is a min. of 6 weeks of growth. As earlier they are in Julie as better. Concerning of the water uptake. Phacelia & oats are not taking up, much less then mustard. And when I see I run out of water I would work on planting the wheat a little later. Because the wheat will grow much better anyway after this so being a little flexible is one of the "secrets" for success.
    This all doesn't work for people which need now a full plan for the next year and even work with a sort of 5-year plan.
    York-Th.

  8. #8
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    York.
    I am under the impression that if you are harvesting and removing peas and/or beans you remove most of the N that they fix in the form of "protein" in the seeds...all you really benefit from is that the residue does not tie up as much N as say a cereal straw crop....
    A pea or a bean that is grown as cover-crop and is totally returned to the soil returns much more N.. of which 40-50% might be available to the following crop if the soil conditions are suitable (Temp/moisture)....

  9. #9
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover crops not neccesarily DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    York.
    I am under the impression that if you are harvesting and removing peas and/or beans you remove most of the N that they fix in the form of "protein" in the seeds...all you really benefit from is that the residue does not tie up as much N as say a cereal straw crop....
    A pea or a bean that is grown as cover-crop and is totally returned to the soil returns much more N.. of which 40-50% might be available to the following crop if the soil conditions are suitable (Temp/moisture)....
    Jim,
    they have measured behind peas up to 300 kg N in the roots / nodules.
    The straw of peas is rich in N and also quick rotting as it has a rather C:N ratio, if I recall correctly.
    We have seen much higher N accumulation in peas grown in No till than even in a organic tillage system, which was very much to a surprise of the researchers and a motivation to buy a CS for plots to do No till organic trails. ;-)
    The other Organic researchers troop have a Semeato for their plots.
    York-Th.

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