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Thread: kelly harrrow

  1. #1
    Will Gilman
    Guest

    kelly harrrow

    has any body tried one of these this season early on.


    -how has it done in regards to slug control?

    -what hp per meter?

    -has it created a problem with regards to wet weather and capping?

    -would it replace a straw rake?

    I have to say that i am not keen on moving much soil but this year has been a nightmare regarding slug control, even where we have straw raked 3 times.

  2. #2
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Near neighbour has one, but not got any wheat drilled...

    I think raking etc may have been a mistake this year as it filled soil cracks up and slowed water infiltration down the soil profile. Just my thoughts.

  3. #3
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    My observation this year was the less we did the lower the slug issue

    letting OSR grow tall and feed the slugs on WW ground seemed to distract them from eating the wheat. If I had raked or harrowed multiple times I wouldn't have had such a good free cover crop

    slugs have been worst on some land that was cultivated and left bare - seemed to get their appetite ready for the crop planted into it !

  4. #4
    Steevo
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    I have only one observation and comment to make.


  5. #5
    Will Gilman
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    I agree with you Andrew and Clive. I do tend to find that less is more?.



    For me I have found that the early drilled stuff is fine as I grew faster than the slugs could graze it. But as soon as ground temp slowed after 2 inches at the beginning of October its been mayhem slow growth of wheat and slugs devouring it. I have also found less problem after the dale seed hawk than the claydon I put this down to better consolidation.

    Clive I think your strategies is correct about the rape volunteers. I just struggled to control black grass when I did this last year

    So I think my strategy is to stick with early drilling where possible and then spring crop blackgrass land.and forget about any light cultivations and save the money then.

  6. #6
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Gilman View Post
    I agree with you Andrew and Clive. I do tend to find that less is more?.



    For me I have found that the early drilled stuff is fine as I grew faster than the slugs could graze it. But as soon as ground temp slowed after 2 inches at the beginning of October its been mayhem slow growth of wheat and slugs devouring it. I have also found less problem after the dale seed hawk than the claydon I put this down to better consolidation.

    Clive I think your strategies is correct about the rape volunteers. I just struggled to control black grass when I did this last year

    So I think my strategy is to stick with early drilling where possible and then spring crop blackgrass land.and forget about any light cultivations and save the money then.
    I find less is more generally for cereals but have not reliably cracked DD OSR yet.

  7. #7
    Joe Boy
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    I struggle to see how raking a stubble controls slugs, I have a claydon one and it did not even take the rape volunteers out. I think it is brilliant to use after the drill though. It puts some of the soil that gets thrown on the unmoved ground back over the seed, this gives better consolidation when rolling which probably does help with slugs.

    If you could roll at night when they are all over the rape volunteers you would squash thousands, trouble is when they are out feeding it is usually to wet to roll.

  8. #8
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    When you hit a slug at 30kph with a 3/4 piece of steel they dont recover but i think it's the eggs that it kills more of

  9. #9
    Fran Loake
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I find less is more generally for cereals but have not reliably cracked DD OSR yet.

    I'd be interested to know how other people have got on with DD OSR. How much soil loosening/disturbance is regarded as neccessary?

    By next autumn we hope to establish everything DD in a CTF system including OSR...

    We may do a bit of trial work to see the difference but originally thought DD or autocast should be fine.

    Am I being over optimistic?

    Fran

  10. #10
    Rob Holmes
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by agricontract View Post
    When you hit a slug at 30kph with a 3/4 piece of steel they dont recover but i think it's the eggs that it kills more of
    +1

    In the few good days we had, after going through with the rake on OSR stubble we found dozens of mutilated slugs and hundreds of slug eggs exposed, the plan was to go over 2 or 3 times but the weather didn't get a copy of the plans!

  11. #11
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Loake View Post
    I'd be interested to know how other people have got on with DD OSR. How much soil loosening/disturbance is regarded as neccessary?

    By next autumn we hope to establish everything DD in a CTF system including OSR...

    We may do a bit of trial work to see the difference but originally thought DD or autocast should be fine.

    Am I being over optimistic?

    Fran
    Osr is my big concern as like you we will be 100% dd next year and ctf

    I have a few ideas on the go that hopefuly will improve our chances of sucess with osr

  12. #12
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Used a horsch co4 to dd osr into chopped wheat straw on all 110ha of rape we have. All drilled 3rd week of August and only pigeon/rabbit grazing will prevent it all getting to harvest!!( I hope)
    Like you Clive I'm aiming to be all dd next year but am looking for jd 750a to complete the system. There must be plenty of tine drills that could get osr into the ground but a cheap co4 for under 10k then possibly put on GEN openers from Soren would guarantee better penetration if ground hard and prob more consistent depth
    Tap root on our rape in mid oct was about 9"-12" long with no deep tine! And I'm now not convinced the subsoiler route is necessary.(or of any benefit if soil structure good)

  13. #13
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Same here: osr is THE challenge in DDing !

    Disc-drill (Moore) failed several times for different reasons, but mostly too much of :slugs & rain & straw. My self-built tine-seeder this year creates a good enough environment to make the seed grow (sweeps straw aside, loosens a bit soil and covers seed enough), but with all the rain here plants have really struggled to get going when sitting in the water, so I think about a deeper loosening could be beneficial !? Say 10 or 15 cm ??

    The CO could be a great tool for that and I`m convinced about the GEN-openers as I have them on now - but not so sure for osr if it won`t be a dry season, because the straw will be on top of the seed !? I know Soren has great results, but he had a drought this year compared to me and most of UK. And if the straw is on top of the seed and is permanently wetted from rain and soaked, it releases a soup that the seedling doesn`t like at all, from what I found.

    I would think a Duett-coulter with maybe a deeper tine on it would be a saver bet as it should sweep straw aside and place the seed in a clean line ?! Maybe it would be better to drop the seed in one line in the middle than in the two rows of each coulter to have it more separated from the straw outside ??
    Have never used the Duetts, put on the GEN straight and then weather stopped me after 25 ha for this year, so limited experience really.....

    I remember someone on here used the Duetts straight into stubbles and another one used bean coulters with offset seedtubes right in front of the packer - would be great to see pictures of both systems and the results as a comparison !

  14. #14
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsewell View Post
    Used a horsch co4 to dd osr into chopped wheat straw on all 110ha of rape we have. All drilled 3rd week of August and only pigeon/rabbit grazing will prevent it all getting to harvest!!( I hope)
    Like you Clive I'm aiming to be all dd next year but am looking for jd 750a to complete the system. There must be plenty of tine drills that could get osr into the ground but a cheap co4 for under 10k then possibly put on GEN openers from Soren would guarantee better penetration if ground hard and prob more consistent depth
    Tap root on our rape in mid oct was about 9"-12" long with no deep tine! And I'm now not convinced the subsoiler route is necessary.(or of any benefit if soil structure good)
    Agree 100% that osr subsoiling is a waste of time - our osr was established of the back of our solo this year however we ran with no legs down and discs doing as little as posible - osr tap roots are straight down and look no different to in all the years we have had 10-12" of leg in the ground and discs set aggressively

    I might well end up with a tine drill running alongside the 750a and if that is the case osr would be one crop I would use it for given the choice, not sure about the GEN openers on a co as I think the co lacks decent depth control. Think a proper tine drill like a dale, seed hawk or Amazone would be a better bet - idealy with ability to place fert near seed.

    I will never work soil deepe than a couple of inches agan in anything other than extreme circumstance

    That's the way I'm probabaly going, I always intended on having more than one drill in my system

  15. #15
    martian
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Coming from another planet as I do, oddly enough we've always DDed OSR and got on well with it. In a dry year you get a cracking head start over anyone who cultivates. Last two years have used 750a to establish and been thrilled with the results. Slugs and pigeons have ruined some of it this year, admittedly it could be because it didn't grow fast enough away. Not sure we can altogether blame the drill. To be fair we normally bale straw in front of osr drilling, the two fields we chopped this year are among the failures...

  16. #16
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by martian View Post
    Coming from another planet as I do, oddly enough we've always DDed OSR and got on well with it. In a dry year you get a cracking head start over anyone who cultivates. Last two years have used 750a to establish and been thrilled with the results. Slugs and pigeons have ruined some of it this year, admittedly it could be because it didn't grow fast enough away. Not sure we can altogether blame the drill. To be fair we normally bale straw in front of osr drilling, the two fields we chopped this year are among the failures...
    Good to hear it can work and everytime I talk to Simon about it he says 750 will do it fine, however we are not chopping straw and this is why I'm worried unless I can get some fert in with the seed or use a tine to sweep straw away and disturb a bit of soil

    Have a while to make my mind up yet though I guess ! Firmly on the fence right now !

  17. #17
    martian
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    The straw is a bit of a menace, especially as you want to get the rape in early before the soil biota have had much chance to thin it out. You'll have to get some animals Clive, make it worth your while baling a few acres...think of the lovely compost you could make!

  18. #18
    155tm
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Who is using fert or nutrition of some form with the seed at drilling, in these dd OSR scenarios?

  19. #19
    martian
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Not me, guv'ner

  20. #20
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Here a pic of our osr taken late oct dd'd with the co4 with standard duett coulters!
    ezdz.jpg][/url]

    We put some Bio-Mulch on from Plumbo on the seedbed then 80l/ha liquid N once well up. (Not absolutely convinced about bio mulch other than when we use it rape normally gets away and does ok)

    Pigeons have knocked it back a bit now but tap roots are good. Emergence was a bit staggered due to differing depths but this year it has all got up and away quick, and driven over it three times with RB26 hardly making a mark.

  21. #21
    Tomsewell
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Here a pic of our osr taken late oct dd'd with the co4 with standard duett coulters! No harrowing! Just straight in to chopped wheat staw after 9t+/ha crop of solstice
    ezdz.jpg][/url]

    We put some Bio-Mulch on from Plumbo on the seedbed then 80l/ha liquid N once well up. (Not absolutely convinced about bio mulch other than when we use it rape normally gets away and does ok)

    Pigeons have knocked it back a bit now but tap roots are good. Emergence was a bit staggered due to differing depths but this year it has all got up and away quick, and driven over it three times with RB26 hardly making a mark.

  22. #22
    yelrabtaehw
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Only been growing OSR seven years.Have not ploughed 12 years.DD'd every time using first our own Dale copy but Amazone Primera for last 3.Always had very respectable results.Always use enough slug pellets as required and always used nitrogen soon after planting to get it going.Never removed straw and find rape seedlings grow through matts of the stuff (Wheat straw).Last couple of years put small amount of AN or DAP down spout with seed but not convinced worth it.Always managed to get it in by the end of the third week in August and never smeared it in and have no plans to change system at moment.

  23. #23
    SorenIlsoe
    Guest

    Re: kelly harrrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 155tm View Post
    Who is using fert or nutrition of some form with the seed at drilling, in these dd OSR scenarios?
    I allways place some liquid N at drilling. Has a great effect!
    The picture taken September 29th. shows OSR DD'ed August 18.th in dry conditions after wheat and choppped straw. You see the difference in 35 kg N placed.
    Take care with the duett openers in wet conditions! They can smear the soil because the place presses it downwards and they don't move the soil if the plate is weared round in the sides. Its much better to use the bean opener.

    In wet conditions and straw it also works here (next pictures from wet 2011). See the picture of the wheels from 2011 here where it was one of the wettest years in decades. Using the GEN openers without the closing discs at the last tines and dismounting the rake leaves more straw in the sides.
    I do not agree about problems with straw in the surface. I see no problems. The important factor to me is that the seed is placed in CLEAN soil that is not mixed with straw. It gives germination problems - mostly because of immobilizing of nitrogen in that process and seeds put right into straw.
    regards Soren

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