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Thread: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

  1. #1
    Neddy Flanders
    Guest

    Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    On paper they have everything going for them, low draft, few moving/wearing parts, reasonably priced, excellent trash clearance.

    Why are there not more around.

    Is it lack of penetration in dry soil and smearing a slot which fills with water in wet? Anyone got any good osr with a Dale on heavy ground?

  2. #2
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Cos there are lots of Claydon sheep maybe?

    And they don't take much hp so what you going to do with the tractor?

  3. #3
    SorenIlsoe
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    I wonder too!
    The only reason i have heard about the Vaderstad seedhawk was that it throws soil over the rows at high speeds.
    But why the high speed? Better go slow with a long lasting 8 meter drill in stead of racing with a 4 m drill..... The wear parts will live much longer also.
    I really like the Dale drill and the fertilizer option is logic and not existing on many other drills.

  4. #4
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Several Dale drills working around us...all on heavy land...I think they have caught on but its a matter of supply and demand and I suspect that Dale have more orders than they can supply...
    We were in France last week looking at a T-Sem look alike and again the manufacturer had many more orders than he could supply...DD is taking off big time across northern Europe and it is the smaller manufacturers that are suppling the machines and the technology..

  5. #5
    Will Gilman
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    I think there are more dale drills about than you think.

    Also I think people are nervous about going to zero soil disturbance from min till and that is where the claydon and mazuri fits in, as a sort of stepping stone to zero till.

    I also think there will be more about in the near future.

    Although will may think that they have a big tractor they may well have less HP per acre than he does and only they know their bottum line.

  6. #6
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Gilman View Post
    I think there are more dale drills about than you think.

    Also I think people are nervous about going to zero soil disturbance from min till and that is where the claydon and mazuri fits in, as a sort of stepping stone to zero till.

    I also think there will be more about in the near future.

    Although will may think that they have a big tractor they may well have less HP per acre than he does and only they know their bottum line.
    I don't understand that?

  7. #7
    Spud
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Cos there are lots of Claydon sheep maybe?

    And they don't take much hp so what you going to do with the tractor?
    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I don't understand that?
    If I'm interpreting Will Gilmans point correctly:

    Eg Min til farm, 1000acres. 1 x 300hp, 2x150hp = 0.6hp/ac

    Not sure how big your farm is Will, but (correct me if I'm mistaken) its 4-500ac?

    You may have, for the sake of argument, 1x150, 1x120, 1x80hp = 350hp, = 0.7hp/ac, effectively more power on your dd farm than a big min til farm

  8. #8
    doorknob
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Several Dale drills working around us...all on heavy land...I think they have caught on but its a matter of supply and demand and I suspect that Dale have more orders than they can supply...
    We were in France last week looking at a T-Sem look alike and again the manufacturer had many more orders than he could supply...DD is taking off big time across northern Europe and it is the smaller manufacturers that are suppling the machines and the technology..
    That is interesting. I wish we had as many manufacturers of equipment as you folks. We do see a lot of the small, family owned manufacturers being the ones that are swamped with orders here too. Seems a better value and usually a closer connection with the needs of the customer than the large manufacturers. ?

  9. #9
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    If I'm interpreting Will Gilmans point correctly:

    Eg Min til farm, 1000acres. 1 x 300hp, 2x150hp = 0.6hp/ac

    Not sure how big your farm is Will, but (correct me if I'm mistaken) its 4-500ac?

    You may have, for the sake of argument, 1x150, 1x120, 1x80hp = 350hp, = 0.7hp/ac, effectively more power on your dd farm than a big min til farm
    Oh yes fair point. I get you. Yes I'm definitely over horsepowered here if you did it per ha.

    That wasn't really the point I was making, it was more that conceptually people tend to like bigger and bigger tractors and the seedhawk requires such a pathetic amount of pulling I wondered if people feel they are downscaling.

  10. #10
    chalky
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    We have had the Dale lads do bits and bobs for us here, as much in interest as to look at a possible future. Good drill I think, not best in heavy trash- does it need sizing discs? If we farmed very stony wold/brash- to be honest the system would have more merit for us as likely no roots & the lower yield potential would be matched with cheaper establishment. But that would be a different farm, not this one.

    Our 'score' for the record is 0.35hp/acre. Tractors only.

  11. #11
    Will Gilman
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    I know what you are saying regarding to down scaling, but until you get into the system it is both nerves and not understanding zero till 100% that makes you keep the big tractor and possibly for tax reasons. But as time goes on and it becomes more common (zero till) , then I think HP will gradually reduce.

    I am in the motions of going from strip till to zero till, and if it wasn't for strip till I probably wouldnt have considered zero till. But when you start to see the benefits of strip till,it get you thinking and understanding soil better . Hence the move to zero till.

    Having said that we look a bloody mess this year,but not financially thank god and that is what counts. Just need a good spring and get back on track.

  12. #12
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Gilman View Post
    Having said that we look a bloody mess this year,but not financially thank god and that is what counts. Just need a good spring and get back on track.
    Fair point, but what is your plan to get back on track ?? After the 3rd wet autumn now, I`m far off the track, also yield-wise which is a no-go with these prices.....
    Planting lots of spring beans and spring oats and saying that next year will be fine to get back on track is becoming ridiculous really - the scottish DDers are even hit worse, how is the plan there ??

  13. #13
    Will Gilman
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    With wheat prices where they are spring crops are a real viable option.

    Budget of 2.75 tonnes of winter wheat ( poor wet seed beds what ever system) with blackgrass, No matter what we spray control is getting poor.

    Where as 2.25 tonnes of spring wheat at current prices does pay. And with low machinery costs you have more options which brings spring crops back into viable option list, more so than under a conventional system.

    And so my plan is to be patient and wait for a dry time !!! even if that is mid April, and if that doesn't work, borrow a bit more money and start again next year (not ideal but it may be the most cost effective ooption)And that will be the same for conventional or dd.

  14. #14
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by chalky View Post
    We have had the Dale lads do bits and bobs for us here, as much in interest as to look at a possible future. Good drill I think, not best in heavy trash- does it need sizing discs? If we farmed very stony wold/brash- to be honest the system would have more merit for us as likely no roots & the lower yield potential would be matched with cheaper establishment. But that would be a different farm, not this one.

    Our 'score' for the record is 0.35hp/acre. Tractors only.
    Not counting a s/p sprayer then?

  15. #15
    Goldilocks
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neddy Flanders View Post
    On paper they have everything going for them, low draft, few moving/wearing parts, reasonably priced, excellent trash clearance.

    Why are there not more around.

    Is it lack of penetration in dry soil and smearing a slot which fills with water in wet? Anyone got any good osr with a Dale on heavy ground?
    We looked at getting a 10 m Dale for our controlled traffic system and i hired one last autmn to drill a few fields of winter wheat. Got on really well with it apart from tractor having to rev its nuts off to work the coulter pressure, also guttlers are too small diameter on our silty clay loams when wet and prone to stopping and bulldozing. Tractor reving now sorted by Dale and i think they are looking hard at different slot closing wheels. My impression was that it is a very good drill and there seems to be a commitment to continually improving it.Compared to the resources behind the likes of Vaderstad and Horsch i think it is a great bit of kit from such a small manufacturer. Also seemed to work better than a seedhawk we tried when presented with cultivated ground .
    For the record we purchased a 10m Kockerling Jockey ( allrounder cultivator with seed cart) because we can use one machine to cultivate and then drill and saved a shed load of capital.

  16. #16
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    They look like a very good drill to me, probably the best of the tined dd options from what what I have seen

    My plan was to have a tine and disc drill working in my system, I'm not 100% sure that this is totally necessary any more as the 750a has exceeded expectations under difficult circumstance

    The jury is out but hopefully I will get to try a dale to drill some oats after wheat this spring.

    On paper it scores well on a lot of points IMO, fert, gutlers, proper depth control and pressure on each coulter, low power req, build widths to suit ctf systems if that's your thing, simplicity and from what I'm told good backup

    We will see ! No doubt it's a good tool but if I really need one or not is another matter !

  17. #17
    clover
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    What would a 4 metre version cost ?

  18. #18
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldilocks View Post
    We looked at getting a 10 m Dale for our controlled traffic system and i hired one last autmn to drill a few fields of winter wheat. Got on really well with it apart from tractor having to rev its nuts off to work the coulter pressure, also guttlers are too small diameter on our silty clay loams when wet and prone to stopping and bulldozing. Tractor reving now sorted by Dale and i think they are looking hard at different slot closing wheels. My impression was that it is a very good drill and there seems to be a commitment to continually improving it.Compared to the resources behind the likes of Vaderstad and Horsch i think it is a great bit of kit from such a small manufacturer. Also seemed to work better than a seedhawk we tried when presented with cultivated ground .
    For the record we purchased a 10m Kockerling Jockey ( allrounder cultivator with seed cart) because we can use one machine to cultivate and then drill and saved a shed load of capital.
    From what I have been told they have the guttlers mounted wrong. They have them running straight upright I think whereas they need to run at an angle like the 750a

  19. #19
    Fran Loake
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    From what I have been told they have the guttlers mounted wrong. They have them running straight upright I think whereas they need to run at an angle like the 750a

    They are mounted vertically - and run fairly ok that way. What would be the difference if they were angled? Just coverage or less blocking? And why?
    Fran

  20. #20
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Loake View Post
    They are mounted vertically - and run fairly ok that way. What would be the difference if they were angled? Just coverage or less blocking? And why?
    Fran
    Better slot closing, they would keep cleaner. This is what I was told by the guy that sells the gutler. Better ask him on the science of why. His comment was they are mounted wrong. I know he watches this site so maybe he can give a better answer.

  21. #21
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Why haven't Dale drills caught on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Loake View Post
    They are mounted vertically - and run fairly ok that way. What would be the difference if they were angled? Just coverage or less blocking? And why?
    Fran
    cos they are prisms. If they are vertical above slot they can't push anything across, only push down what is there and at the end point of the prism there is no surface area. They are more for flicking soil across than for firming - problem is the depth control is taken off these same wheels which is really not ideal.

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