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Thread: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

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    Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    I have a 1996 Matbro TS280. It works fine when cold, however after about half an hour the lift stops working, and will only work when I use the bucket tilt function, then it will lift normally once. It stays like this for a bit then the lift stops working completely whatever I do. It is not electrical as as the lift does not work if the valve is operated manually on the valveblock either. I do not think it is the pump as when the lift starts to go intermittent it either does not work at all or suddenly works and lifts weights normally.
    I would be grateful for any suggestions!

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    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Could it be airlocking somewhere perhaps ?

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    it will be the inlet module on the main spool block quite common. it can also feck the pump quite quickly, or if the pump is on its last legs and spits a load of metal out then that can feck it too.

    Stick a pressure gauge on it there is a test port on the inlet section if you don't have the screw coupler then remove it and the thread is 1/4bsp, main pressure should be 3200psi when hot and should hold it there steady. what you will find is pressure will be low and will spike up and down as the main relief valve in the inlet module sticks it will also reduce the oil flow and make the oil run very hot.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Ace, that sounds like the answer, what exactly does this module look like, is it bolted to the side of the valveblock? I will try the pressure shortly, I assume the answer is a new module?
    Cheers

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Thanks, I will try the test, it does behave exactly as you describe with the oil getting hotter than it should, is the module repairable or will a new one need to be sought?

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by devonjohn View Post
    Thanks, I will try the test, it does behave exactly as you describe with the oil getting hotter than it should, is the module repairable or will a new one need to be sought?
    the inlet module is the first section on the spool block with the main pressure pipe and the return pipe back to tank out of it, you will have to undo the three tie rods that hold the whole block together to replace it, and no they are not repairable.

    Ideally you will take the whole block apart and clean/replace all the orings between each section, but if block is bone dry and you want to cut corners then cable tie all the solenoids together, then cable tie the hydraulic pipes and also the manual operation side of the valve block then you can replace the module with out disturbing the orings etc and not even remove the block from the machine.

    oh and change the hydraulic filters and clean the tank out would be a good idea too. you not got your PMs switched on, would you like a price on module? send me a PM

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    the inlet module is the first section on the spool block with the main pressure pipe and the return pipe back to tank out of it, you will have to undo the three tie rods that hold the whole block together to replace it, and no they are not repairable.

    Ideally you will take the whole block apart and clean/replace all the orings between each section, but if block is bone dry and you want to cut corners then cable tie all the solenoids together, then cable tie the hydraulic pipes and also the manual operation side of the valve block then you can replace the module with out disturbing the orings etc and not even remove the block from the machine.

    oh and change the hydraulic filters and clean the tank out would be a good idea too. you not got your PMs switched on, would you like a price on module? send me a PM

    Ace, Devonjohn has recently joined and posted straight away, his PM's won't be enabled until he has completed enough posts, unfortunately this is just one of several measures required to try and deter spammers from joining up for a quick hit & run attack

    ff



    .

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Ace, Devonjohn has recently joined and posted straight away, his PM's won't be enabled until he has completed enough posts, unfortunately this is just one of several measures required to try and deter spammers from joining up for a quick hit & run attack

    ff



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    Ah Didn't know that. sent him email anyway

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Good to hear you got matbro sorted devonjohn, thanks for the drink

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    the inlet module is the first section on the spool block with the main pressure pipe and the return pipe back to tank out of it, you will have to undo the three tie rods that hold the whole block together to replace it, and no they are not repairable.
    a PM
    I had exactly the same symptoms and replaced the inlet module. Now nothing works. But I notice, when I remove the pipes from the block, that fluid is flowing from the book extender valve. There doesn't seem to be any reason why this is the case. I'm just going to go and remove the valve chest again and carefully dismantle it. I'll report soon.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    I had exactly the same symptoms and replaced the inlet module. Now nothing works. But I notice, when I remove the pipes from the block, that fluid is flowing from the book extender valve. There doesn't seem to be any reason why this is the case. I'm just going to go and remove the valve chest again and carefully dismantle it. I'll report soon.
    that's because the main relief on a new inlet section is fully unscrewed.

    Pipe in a pressure gauge on to the 1/4 bsp port on the inlet section, get a 5mm? allen key I think? and screw in the relief valve and operate aux service till you get 3200psi

    Looks like I could be too late with the reply bogman! could have saved you the hassle of pulling it all apart again for nothing

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    that's because the main relief on a new inlet section is fully unscrewed.

    Looks like I could be too late with the reply bogman! could have saved you the hassle of pulling it all apart again for nothing
    Ace, you were not too late but I am still no further on. I didn't have a pressure gauge but certainly the symptoms are of low, or no, pressure. I'll get a gauge during the week.

    But there are few things I don't understand. To me it doesn't look like there is any facility for pressure adjustment. That screw you referred to does tighten against a spring, presumable the pressure relief spring, but it is sealed down thight on the body with an o-ring seal.

    Also, fluid is constantly flowing out of the boom extension port when I take that pipe off. It isn't flowing out of any other port.

    I'm stuck on this one.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace, you were not too late but I am still no further on. I didn't have a pressure gauge but certainly the symptoms are of low, or no, pressure. I'll get a gauge during the week.

    But there are few things I don't understand. To me it doesn't look like there is any facility for pressure adjustment. That screw you referred to does tighten against a spring, presumable the pressure relief spring, but it is sealed down thight on the body with an o-ring seal.

    Also, fluid is constantly flowing out of the boom extension port when I take that pipe off. It isn't flowing out of any other port.

    I'm stuck on this one.
    look harder at the inlet section! on the top of it there is a small adjusting screw for use with an allen key there is also a small circlip I think which stops the adjuster being turned fully out of the body you will find the adjuster is hard up against the circlip, tighten it down till you get 3200psi.
    Adjuster is on the top right next to one of the main ports, the inlet one I think? you wouldn't find much of a spring under it anyway as this adjuster only acts on the main pressure modulating valve which is internal in the section.

    The allen key head you have removed is either the other one on the top which is something else all together or it is the plug were the 1/4 bsp test port fits on the side.

    One other thing there are two types of inlet section both look identical! one is open and one is closed circuit. you want the open circuit one as you only have a standard gear pump. if you are fitting a closed circuit one then that will give you problems possibly just blow the pump to bits though and not give the same problem.

    Either way both types if bought new will come with the relief valve fully unwound and will give zero pressure and nothing will work.

    You will get oil leaking out though any open ports on the valve block even if no services are being used, this is how they are it is just back pressure of oil going though the tank return filter don't worry about it, check you have been sent the right inlet section and find the pressure adjuster. the matbro part number for the inlet section you DONT WANT is 503407 that is for the TR250's with piston pumps. sorry not got the correct part number to hand at the moment. should have the right inlet section at workshop which I can get you the danfoss number off it to check against yours if needed. Depends were you bought it from and how switched on they were! if they didn't tell you you needed set the main pressure to get it to work then sounds like they were not quite on the ball that day!

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace, you were not too late but I am still no further on. I didn't have a pressure gauge but certainly the symptoms are of low, or no, pressure. I'll get a gauge during the week.

    But there are few things I don't understand. To me it doesn't look like there is any facility for pressure adjustment. That screw you referred to does tighten against a spring, presumable the pressure relief spring, but it is sealed down thight on the body with an o-ring seal.

    Also, fluid is constantly flowing out of the boom extension port when I take that pipe off. It isn't flowing out of any other port.

    I'm stuck on this one.
    When you say flowing out do you mean like full flow or just a steady dribble under back pressure from the filter?

    You may have a stuck spool on the extension slice? have you operated the section manualy via the 9mm hex on the opposite end to the elecy solenoid?

    You may have a damaged slice/spool rod or you may have dropped an oring? although that would just leak external?

    The plug you may have found with the spring under it sounds like the other valve I was talking about on the top of the section? the adjuster you want is also recessed in the top with a circlip on the top of it.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    When you say flowing out do you mean like full flow or just a steady dribble under back pressure from the filter?
    You may have a damaged slice/spool rod or you may have dropped an oring? although that would just leak external?

    adjuster you want is also recessed in the top with a circlip on the top of it.
    Ace, you are a fund on knowledge. I see the adjuster on the old inlet unit and I'll go at that tomorrow evening.

    The flow from the valve is a font, about 1 inch high. Maybe it is back pressure but why is this happening on only one valve?

    The spool works when I use a 9mm on the solenoid. In fact I was looking down on it with my mouth open when I operated it. I'll let you picture it yourself - face, head, hair and everything else saturated in oil.

    Again, thanks for the advice.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace, you are a fund on knowledge. I see the adjuster on the old inlet unit and I'll go at that tomorrow evening.

    The flow from the valve is a font, about 1 inch high. Maybe it is back pressure but why is this happening on only one valve?

    The spool works when I use a 9mm on the solenoid. In fact I was looking down on it with my mouth open when I operated it. I'll let you picture it yourself - face, head, hair and everything else saturated in oil.

    Again, thanks for the advice.
    sorry cant help myself

    if its only an inch high its not under great pressure so likely as I said back pressure. if you blank it off it will no doubt come out of another open port/service as will take the easiest route, its just leakage between the spool rod and housing I think some are worst than others. or take the tank return filter out which you want to be changing anyway, plus the optional pressure filter behind the cab if you have it.
    Actually you would be wise to drop the hyd oil and clean the suction filter in the tank and clean the tank inside too, drop in a old magnet or 2 bigger the better and refill with HV46.

    These inlet sections don't like dirt in them.

    Once you get it sorted then look once again at the oil leaking from extension port. check the pressure on that service, I will try to remember to bring the correct pressures home tomorrow for you as some are different on different services to main pressure, the tilt forward is the first one that springs to mind but also the extension I think. Aux and main lift are full pressure 3200psi.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    sorry cant help myself.

    Once you get it sorted then look once again at the oil leaking from extension port. check the pressure on that service, I will try to remember to bring the correct pressures home tomorrow for you as some are different on different services to main pressure, the tilt forward is the first one that springs to mind but also the extension I think. Aux and main lift are full pressure 3200psi.
    Ace,

    You are not just an Ace, you're a Star. We are on the way to getting everything sorted at last. The pressure adjustment got everything back working as it should. Pity I didn't know about that 2 months ago.

    I got the inlet section from Howford-Hydraulics and the part no. is DA-157-B5110. I also replaced all the o-rings.

    I haven't set the pressure yet, just screwed the adjuster in a bit. I have a 4000psi gauge and rather than screwing a 1/4"bsp fitting into the port I would prefer to use the quick relaase coupling that is on the unit. Would you know what quick release coupling I should look for?

    Now I can get on with cleaning the filters, flushing the tank and replacing the fluid.

    Then I can try and sort out the starting difficulties. I am also having the same issues that are being discussed on another thread. But one problem at a time.

    Again, your words of wisdom are really appreciated. It is great discussing this with someone who clearly knows this machine inside out.

    Thanks.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace,

    You are not just an Ace, you're a Star. We are on the way to getting everything sorted at last. The pressure adjustment got everything back working as it should. Pity I didn't know about that 2 months ago.

    I got the inlet section from Howford-Hydraulics and the part no. is DA-157-B5110. I also replaced all the o-rings.

    I haven't set the pressure yet, just screwed the adjuster in a bit. I have a 4000psi gauge and rather than screwing a 1/4"bsp fitting into the port I would prefer to use the quick relaase coupling that is on the unit. Would you know what quick release coupling I should look for?

    Now I can get on with cleaning the filters, flushing the tank and replacing the fluid.

    Then I can try and sort out the starting difficulties. I am also having the same issues that are being discussed on another thread. But one problem at a time.

    Again, your words of wisdom are really appreciated. It is great discussing this with someone who clearly knows this machine inside out.

    Thanks.
    The standard test port coupler should look like this.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace,

    You are not just an Ace, you're a Star. We are on the way to getting everything sorted at last. The pressure adjustment got everything back working as it should. Pity I didn't know about that 2 months ago.

    I got the inlet section from Howford-Hydraulics and the part no. is DA-157-B5110. I also replaced all the o-rings.

    I haven't set the pressure yet, just screwed the adjuster in a bit. I have a 4000psi gauge and rather than screwing a 1/4"bsp fitting into the port I would prefer to use the quick relaase coupling that is on the unit. Would you know what quick release coupling I should look for?

    Now I can get on with cleaning the filters, flushing the tank and replacing the fluid.

    Then I can try and sort out the starting difficulties. I am also having the same issues that are being discussed on another thread. But one problem at a time.

    Again, your words of wisdom are really appreciated. It is great discussing this with someone who clearly knows this machine inside out.

    Thanks.

    Found this kit on flee bay think they are the same connectors and kit not too dear http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-...item27db8baf36

    Me and Foots fitter have a digital gauge which is the bees knees but bit more money had mine a long time now and cost me an arm and a leg but FF bought one recently exactly the same as mine but a lot cheaper

    There are a couple of different screw couplings so if you are looking on ebay don't assume they are all the same! differcult to tell from the pics what they are as they all got the caps on.

    Bogman you need to post a couple more times for your PMs to start working

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    Found this kit on flee bay think they are the same connectors and kit not too dear
    Ace,

    I got a my guage finally connected yesterday. I couldn't get a connector to fit the coupling but I took out the coupling and was able to get a fitting to screw in its place. A bit akward but it worked and I had no difficulty in setting the pressure at 3200psi.

    The original problem, loading and unloading of the engine, is now completely eliminated. I hope the oil leaks are also fixed with the new o-rings but time will tell on that. At the moment there is still oil everywhere.

    Now to replace the hydraulic oil filter, flush the tank and treat the machine to new oil.

    On a related matter, do you know what is the recommended fluid for the transmission? During the summer I drained the transmission, after I had a hose leak, and refilled it with "red" atf fluid.

    And after all that on to the starting problems.....

    Ace, thanks again.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace,

    I got a my guage finally connected yesterday. I couldn't get a connector to fit the coupling but I took out the coupling and was able to get a fitting to screw in its place. A bit akward but it worked and I had no difficulty in setting the pressure at 3200psi.

    The original problem, loading and unloading of the engine, is now completely eliminated. I hope the oil leaks are also fixed with the new o-rings but time will tell on that. At the moment there is still oil everywhere.

    Now to replace the hydraulic oil filter, flush the tank and treat the machine to new oil.

    On a related matter, do you know what is the recommended fluid for the transmission? During the summer I drained the transmission, after I had a hose leak, and refilled it with "red" atf fluid.

    And after all that on to the starting problems.....

    Ace, thanks again.


    Dexron 2.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    Ace,

    I got a my guage finally connected yesterday. I couldn't get a connector to fit the coupling but I took out the coupling and was able to get a fitting to screw in its place. A bit akward but it worked and I had no difficulty in setting the pressure at 3200psi.

    The original problem, loading and unloading of the engine, is now completely eliminated. I hope the oil leaks are also fixed with the new o-rings but time will tell on that. At the moment there is still oil everywhere.

    Now to replace the hydraulic oil filter, flush the tank and treat the machine to new oil.

    On a related matter, do you know what is the recommended fluid for the transmission? During the summer I drained the transmission, after I had a hose leak, and refilled it with "red" atf fluid.

    And after all that on to the starting problems.....

    Ace, thanks again.
    Yes you did right there by the sounds of it Universal ATF and dextron 2 is the spec, there are others you can use but that is the one matbro and most manufactures recommended when the machine was new, there are others that will work fine too like Morris CT10 which is a EP10w and is CAT T0-4 spec same as the JCB special trans EP10w oil down side of that oil is its clear not red. Red ATF is easy to spot if you have a leak unlike Clear EP10 which can just be put down to a hydraulic oil leak and and not noticed till trans has run out completely dry!

    CAT T0-4 is meant to be better for oil seals according to Morris website keeping them soft for longer and not letting them go hard as nails with age?

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    The hydraulics are now working perfectly, that is, after I get the machine started and that is the next problem. Anybody got any suggestions where to get the hydraulic filters that I will replace as soon as I can get them.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    The hydraulics are now working perfectly, that is, after I get the machine started and that is the next problem. Anybody got any suggestions where to get the hydraulic filters that I will replace as soon as I can get them.
    Me and I can send you a starter while your at it, can you sort out your PMs?

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    Me and I can send you a starter while your at it, can you sort out your PMs?
    Ace, I like the short simple message. We will go with that, starter and filters.

    I think my PM's might be sorted.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by bogman View Post
    The hydraulics are now working perfectly, that is, after I get the machine started and that is the next problem. Anybody got any suggestions where to get the hydraulic filters that I will replace as soon as I can get them.
    I know that this is an old thread, but I thought that someone might appreciate knowing how I solved the starting problems on my TS280
    I had it from just 200 hours, and it was always a problem to start, especially in winter. I used it daily on a remote outdoor pig farm with no suitable mains power, and frequently had to rely on an ancient DB1200 to jump it. We got through umpteen cans of quickstart. New batteries helped, as did new starters, and new heaters.
    But, after 10+ years, the extra Hyd cooling radiator, mounted on the right rear mudguard failed, and I used the space to add a second battery. What a revelation, instant starting every time. I'm now retired, and often don't start her for months at a time, but she now ALWAYS starts first time.
    Maybe just moving the original battery closer to the engine, or upgrading the thickness of the wiring, or improving the earthing would have done the same job.....?

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by gilt279 View Post
    I know that this is an old thread, but I thought that someone might appreciate knowing how I solved the starting problems on my TS280
    I had it from just 200 hours, and it was always a problem to start, especially in winter. I used it daily on a remote outdoor pig farm with no suitable mains power, and frequently had to rely on an ancient DB1200 to jump it. We got through umpteen cans of quickstart. New batteries helped, as did new starters, and new heaters.
    But, after 10+ years, the extra Hyd cooling radiator, mounted on the right rear mudguard failed, and I used the space to add a second battery. What a revelation, instant starting every time. I'm now retired, and often don't start her for months at a time, but she now ALWAYS starts first time.
    Maybe just moving the original battery closer to the engine, or upgrading the thickness of the wiring, or improving the earthing would have done the same job.....?
    Cheaper and easier to just fit a decent starter in the first place and be done with it. Never seen a matbro with hydraulic oil cooler they don't really need one if the hydraulic oil is over heating its because the inlet/pressure modulating section of the main spool block is faulty.

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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    Cheaper and easier to just fit a decent starter in the first place and be done with it. Never seen a matbro with hydraulic oil cooler they don't really need one if the hydraulic oil is over heating its because the inlet/pressure modulating section of the main spool block is faulty.
    I bought it when Matbro went bust, and the liquidators brought several ts280 machines back from the S of France, where they had presumably had problems with overheating hydraulics? It was very cheap for a 'new' machine. I never bothered to remove the cooler until it started leaking.
    As I say, we did fit a new starter, and it did have some benefit, but NOTHING compared to the difference that the extra battery made. Though as I say, it may just have required improvements in the wiring, (though the dealer who sold it to me was never able to make it a 'good starter'.
    The machine has done well over 10.000 hours, and is in a totally disreputable state. So much so that I refused to sell it to the guy who bought my business. Following an unnoticed, serious Hydr leak, it stopped working recently, and produced a horrible froth in the reservoir (which I thought was an emulsion, until I drained it). When I refill it, can I just run it, until the pump primes, or do I need to do anything special, to get it started?

    Also, when I finished business, I have ended up with no 32 oil, a little 46, a lot of 15w40, and some upt transmission oil. Could I use any combination of these, with the remaining 32 in the tank, to get the thing going, and not do any permanent harm to seals etc.? I only use it around the farmyard for perhaps 10 hrs a year, and if it only worked at 25% speed, and 50% capacity, that would be fine. I'm loathe to spend money on anything, even oil, unless its necessary!

    BTW, I would like to thank you, on behalf of anyone who reads your notes, for the time and trouble that you take helping us. Its not just the person that you are replying to that benefits from your expertise, but many others too.

  29. #29
    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by gilt279 View Post
    I bought it when Matbro went bust, and the liquidators brought several ts280 machines back from the S of France, where they had presumably had problems with overheating hydraulics? It was very cheap for a 'new' machine. I never bothered to remove the cooler until it started leaking.
    As I say, we did fit a new starter, and it did have some benefit, but NOTHING compared to the difference that the extra battery made. Though as I say, it may just have required improvements in the wiring, (though the dealer who sold it to me was never able to make it a 'good starter'.
    The machine has done well over 10.000 hours, and is in a totally disreputable state. So much so that I refused to sell it to the guy who bought my business. Following an unnoticed, serious Hydr leak, it stopped working recently, and produced a horrible froth in the reservoir (which I thought was an emulsion, until I drained it). When I refill it, can I just run it, until the pump primes, or do I need to do anything special, to get it started?

    Also, when I finished business, I have ended up with no 32 oil, a little 46, a lot of 15w40, and some upt transmission oil. Could I use any combination of these, with the remaining 32 in the tank, to get the thing going, and not do any permanent harm to seals etc.? I only use it around the farmyard for perhaps 10 hrs a year, and if it only worked at 25% speed, and 50% capacity, that would be fine. I'm loathe to spend money on anything, even oil, unless its necessary!

    BTW, I would like to thank you, on behalf of anyone who reads your notes, for the time and trouble that you take helping us. Its not just the person that you are replying to that benefits from your expertise, but many others too.
    46 hydraulic oil is the prefured spec. Normal engine oil will tend to froth and aerate I think so best not.

    To bleed prime the hydraulic pump loosen off the out let at the pump and turn engine till oil comes out then tighten and start machine working hydraulics and steering.

  30. #30
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    Re: Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    46 hydraulic oil is the prefured spec. Normal engine oil will tend to froth and aerate I think so best not.

    To bleed prime the hydraulic pump loosen off the out let at the pump and turn engine till oil comes out then tighten and start machine working hydraulics and steering.
    Thank you.
    Worked fine for a while....

    Now I have another problem!
    I've not used the boom extension for a long time, and came to use it today, fully extended it, and now can't retract it again. The engine changes note when I press the control button, but it doesn't move.
    When we used it regularly a number of years ago, it sometimes did this, and the answer was to push the forks into the ground, and drive forward at the same time. But that doesn't help....What should I try next?

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