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Thread: frome market mistake

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    frome market mistake

    sent 1 ped incalf hereford 3yo and two 9mo angus x freisan to the stores sale at frome on friday. they were late entrys so were not in the catalog. The entry form sent with them clearly listed them as seperat lots but went i called to find out how they got on i was told that they had been sold as in calf cow with twins at foot. They made 1360.00 which is below what we thought they would make individually. market report had 8-9 mo hereford/angus x selling between 650 and 800. even if the 2 angus x 9mo sold for 500 then incalf cow only made 360. auctioneer said he thought they would nt make much more if sold seperate but admitted fault and said they would knock off commision. Is there anything I can do or do I just learn from it? it was obvious the angus x stores did nt belong to the hereford as they dont have white faces.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    sent 1 ped incalf hereford 3yo and two 9mo angus x freisan to the stores sale at frome on friday. they were late entrys so were not in the catalog. The entry form sent with them clearly listed them as seperat lots but went i called to find out how they got on i was told that they had been sold as in calf cow with twins at foot. They made 1360.00 which is below what we thought they would make individually. market report had 8-9 mo hereford/angus x selling between 650 and 800. even if the 2 angus x 9mo sold for 500 then incalf cow only made 360. auctioneer said he thought they would nt make much more if sold seperate but admitted fault and said they would knock off commision. Is there anything I can do or do I just learn from it? it was obvious the angus x stores did nt belong to the hereford as they dont have white faces.
    Tell them you're not happy with the sale and ask for the cattle back.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by NZDan View Post
    Tell them you're not happy with the sale and ask for the cattle back.
    did nt put reserve on entry so not an option

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    Smile Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    sent 1 ped incalf hereford 3yo and two 9mo angus x freisan to the stores sale at frome on friday. they were late entrys so were not in the catalog. The entry form sent with them clearly listed them as seperat lots but went i called to find out how they got on i was told that they had been sold as in calf cow with twins at foot. They made 1360.00 which is below what we thought they would make individually. market report had 8-9 mo hereford/angus x selling between 650 and 800. even if the 2 angus x 9mo sold for 500 then incalf cow only made 360. auctioneer said he thought they would nt make much more if sold seperate but admitted fault and said they would knock off commision. Is there anything I can do or do I just learn from it? it was obvious the angus x stores did nt belong to the hereford as they dont have white faces.
    They are pritty good up there i take it trevor sold them
    shame i wasnt there they sounded cheap could have kept the cow and put the calves back through
    I know its all well and good for me to say but it pays to see them sold
    You could try telling them you are still not happy and see if you could get some future sales for nothing
    As for getting the animals back I can't see how that would work as the buyer bought in good faith and has transported them home

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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: frome market mistake

    On the plus side but not worth anything you did top the markethttp://www.premierlivestock.co.uk/Content/sites/fromelivestock/pages/1812/FRI-27-09.PDF

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    sent 1 ped incalf hereford 3yo and two 9mo angus x freisan to the stores sale at frome on friday. they were late entrys so were not in the catalog. The entry form sent with them clearly listed them as seperat lots but went i called to find out how they got on i was told that they had been sold as in calf cow with twins at foot. They made 1360.00 which is below what we thought they would make individually. market report had 8-9 mo hereford/angus x selling between 650 and 800. even if the 2 angus x 9mo sold for 500 then incalf cow only made 360. auctioneer said he thought they would nt make much more if sold seperate but admitted fault and said they would knock off commision. Is there anything I can do or do I just learn from it? it was obvious the angus x stores did nt belong to the hereford as they dont have white faces.
    A lesson to be learned here always see your cattle sold. What you think you have instructed and what the mart has received by way of instruction can have different meanings. Buyers are wary of 'unfaithered' stock so will discount. You will also find that all cattle are worth more at home its what the buyers at the mart value them at that matters.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    A lesson to be learned here always see your cattle sold. What you think you have instructed and what the mart has received by way of instruction can have different meanings. Buyers are wary of 'unfaithered' stock so will discount. You will also find that all cattle are worth more at home its what the buyers at the mart value them at that matters.
    I think a bettter lesson would be that if a market fails to make good any losses that you suffer due to their inability to follow written instructions it's time to start selling somewhere else!

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Not the first case I have heard about cattle being given away at Frome. No comeback for vendor apart from going elsewhere. Perhaps that is why Sedgemoor is popular?!

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    did nt put reserve on entry so not an option
    Its not about the reserve. Its about the incorrect selling of them, the sale yards are at fault its up to them to either redo the sale or pay you an agreed amount. The Agents are happy enough to take commission for conducting a sale but they're always pretty gutless when they get it wrong.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    Not the first case I have heard about cattle being given away at Frome. No comeback for vendor apart from going elsewhere. Perhaps that is why Sedgemoor is popular?!
    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA and thats all I am going to say about that

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    Re: frome market mistake

    If the entry form clearly showed them as being listed seperately, then request a copy of your form - athough always makes sense to keep a copy yourself. The very fact that it was written down makes the mart at fault - you contracted with them to sell the lots seperately and they didn't, so they must make the difference in price between what they would have sold for 'correctly' and how the did sell.

    The fact they topped the market as cow and twin calves outfit should tell you that the lot wasn't sold correctly....

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    did nt put reserve on entry so not an option
    Another time why not book them in to the cataloge on the monday then you could see on line if they are listed right simples
    and go see them sold if you can

    You have got some money back from them see talk to them and see if you can get them to wave the charges on another sale

    I should think it was just a mistake, everyone makes them but it was there mistake non the less

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    Senior Member Songsheet's Avatar
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    Re: frome market mistake

    More I think about this, the more the market have left themselves open to action - the purchaser of the cattle did so maybe thinking 'Wow' this cow can certainly produce decent twins....' Which, of course, she hasn't!

    Waiving just the commission is pretty insulting, in fact. You should take this further.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Songsheet View Post
    More I think about this, the more the market have left themselves open to action - the purchaser of the cattle did so maybe thinking 'Wow' this cow can certainly produce decent twins....' Which, of course, she hasn't!

    Waiving just the commission is pretty insulting, in fact. You should take this further.
    I wonder if the person that bought them has complained easy enough to see that the calves don't belong to the cow

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    I wonder if the person that bought them has complained easy enough to see that the calves don't belong to the cow
    they are probably just happy that they got all 3 plus unborn ped calf for that price. prob move them on in a couple of weeks and make afew quid.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Another time why not book them in to the cataloge on the monday then you could see on line if they are listed right simples
    and go see them sold if you can

    You have got some money back from them see talk to them and see if you can get them to wave the charges on another sale

    I should think it was just a mistake, everyone makes them but it was there mistake non the less
    admitidly they were late entrys thats why they did nt make the catalog but i phoned them wed to make sure they could still be entered at which time the lady took details over the phone. also emailed conformation that evening giving tag numbers details etc so they knew what was coming , then entry form went with cattle on the friday morn.

    because i live on the isle of wight it becomes costly to get to frome. if i did go travel etc would be deducted from sale price which would have been even worse.

    The main prob is the 2 angus calves belonged to my mum and the ped cow belonged to me even though same holding. because they were sold as one lot we dont know who got what.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    It shouldn't be necessary to be present to check to see if your stock are being sold correctly! That's what you pay the mart for... Sure it was a genuine mistake but the genuine remedy is certainly not trying to brush the customer off with just no commission and a pretty stupid comment they would have made that anyway - the fact that callthisahobbie lives in the IOW makes this look more like they're trying to fob them off to me. So yes, too right I would make a proper issue of this and they should making a much bigger off of compo than they have. Don't give up.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Songsheet View Post
    It shouldn't be necessary to be present to check to see if your stock are being sold correctly! That's what you pay the mart for... Sure it was a genuine mistake but the genuine remedy is certainly not trying to brush the customer off with just no commission and a pretty stupid comment they would have made that anyway - the fact that callthisahobbie lives in the IOW makes this look more like they're trying to fob them off to me. So yes, too right I would make a proper issue of this and they should making a much bigger off of compo than they have. Don't give up.
    +1

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Songsheet View Post
    It shouldn't be necessary to be present to check to see if your stock are being sold correctly! That's what you pay the mart for... Sure it was a genuine mistake but the genuine remedy is certainly not trying to brush the customer off with just no commission and a pretty stupid comment they would have made that anyway - the fact that callthisahobbie lives in the IOW makes this look more like they're trying to fob them off to me. So yes, too right I would make a proper issue of this and they should making a much bigger off of compo than they have. Don't give up.
    I think there is more than one farmer that comes from IOW to sell at Frome [just the same as there is more than one that comes from Bridgewater] So I don't think that is the reason

    Have you got any more calves more or less the same to sell ? If you have send them and see what they make that would settle the agument off what they are worth

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    Senior Member Sam_TM's Avatar
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    Re: frome market mistake

    I think all auction marts 'are recommended' to work to the Livestock Auctioneers Association "Conditions of Sale for Cattle, Calves, Pigs & Sheep at Livestock Auction Markets" - http://www.wattsandmorgan.co.uk/download_file/view/113/ (2009 edition)

    I haven't read it, but there might be something in there about obligations &/or procedures in these sorts of cases.
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    Re: frome market mistake

    Have you had any more luck with the market about this ?

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    I wonder if the person that bought them has complained easy enough to see that the calves don't belong to the cow
    The dam's tag number and thus her ID is printed on the passport, is it not??
    So there's been a serious case of mis-selling here.

    Keep at it, as has been said and let us know the outcome.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    The dam's tag number and thus her ID is printed on the passport, is it not??
    So there's been a serious case of mis-selling here.

    Keep at it, as has been said and let us know the outcome.
    That is what I ment than you very much

    Yes the market made a mistake i wonder how many times his cattle have been "mis-sold" as you put it before ?

    And yes he should keep at it why do you think I asked ?

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    That is what I ment than you very much

    Yes the market made a mistake i wonder how many times his cattle have been "mis-sold" as you put it before ?

    And yes he should keep at it why do you think I asked ?
    To back you up

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Have you had any more luck with the market about this ?
    sent an email to frome regarding the misselling and pointed out that i did everything correct at my end and feel i am afew hundred down because of it. As of today i have received no reply but have received the cheque for the sold ammount.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by callthisahobbie View Post
    sent an email to frome regarding the misselling and pointed out that i did everything correct at my end and feel i am afew hundred down because of it. As of today i have received no reply but have received the cheque for the sold ammount.
    Not 100% sure but I suspect if you cash it, you will be deemed to have accepted that sum and that will be the end of your dispute. Might be worth a quick call to your solicitor before you bank it.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    cheque law , and why I don't use them

    just so you understand accepting and cashing a cheque has nothing to do with the service or invoice

    it is only a legal promise to pay


    Mr smith writes a cheque to Mr jones because he has committed to a contract promise to pay

    it was a expensive mistake for me 20 years ago but just so you understand the two things are totally and legally separate issues


    so don't ever pay a deposit by cheque a receipt saying payment accepted means zero

    on the other hand never ever cancel or stop a cheque as your immediately committing an offence again something I on occasions do have fun with, immediate costs

    I would suggest you do a simple thing , invoice a realistic difference don't be silly submit evidence of your mathematics .

    then 21 days later statuary demand , https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands/overview sit back and watch it will be fun to send the bailiffs to confiscate the stock on a busy market day . hundreds of animals and hundreds of angry customers , what a riot

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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by tcf View Post
    cheque law , and why I don't use them

    just so you understand accepting and cashing a cheque has nothing to do with the service or invoice

    it is only a legal promise to pay


    Mr smith writes a cheque to Mr jones because he has committed to a contract promise to pay

    it was a expensive mistake for me 20 years ago but just so you understand the two things are totally and legally separate issues


    so don't ever pay a deposit by cheque a receipt saying payment accepted means zero

    on the other hand never ever cancel or stop a cheque as your immediately committing an offence again something I on occasions do have fun with, immediate costs

    I would suggest you do a simple thing , invoice a realistic difference don't be silly submit evidence of your mathematics .

    then 21 days later statuary demand , https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands/overview sit back and watch it will be fun to send the bailiffs to confiscate the stock on a busy market day . hundreds of animals and hundreds of angry customers , what a riot
    I would drop it and put it down to experience. Had you been there with your stock this wouldn't have happened. Yes, the mart was at fault but not worth making enemies for a few hundred quid. Legal fees could wipe out any gain (and you might not win).
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    Re: frome market mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by tcf View Post

    on the other hand never ever cancel or stop a cheque as your immediately committing an offence again something I on occasions do have fun with, immediate costs
    As far as I'm aware it's not an offence to stop a cheque. It's only an offence to issue a cheque with the intention of stopping it in order to obtain goods by deception. Though it's very difficult to prove that someone intended to stop the cheque before they wrote it.

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    Re: frome market mistake

    2 nine month old calves approx 350 to 400 kg each
    1 3 year old cow approx 600 to 700 kg.
    total kg = 1300 to 1500 kg.
    total income 1360 quid.
    Even with sellers discretion that is just plain wrong. He should have left them unsold.
    to claim the would sell more together is a load of balls.
    Even cull cows are making more than that!

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