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Thread: New Bull or Used Bull?

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    New Bull or Used Bull?

    I have a relatively small pedigree herd (30 head and have just lost one of my Stock Bulls, Would you replace with a New Young Bull from the Breed society sale or buy a Older Bull with a known background ?

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by LINCS RED View Post
    I have a relatively small pedigree herd (30 head and have just lost one of my Stock Bulls, Would you replace with a New Young Bull from the Breed society sale or buy a Older Bull with a known background ?
    Neither, I would set myself up to AI with those numbers, widest choice of genetics without the disease or performance risks associated with keeping a bull.

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by LINCS RED View Post
    I have a relatively small pedigree herd (30 head and have just lost one of my Stock Bulls, Would you replace with a New Young Bull from the Breed society sale or buy a Older Bull with a known background ?
    Buy young or older bull from somwhere you know or at least somwhere you can see him on farm and get him tested before you have him

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    Senior Member wr.'s Avatar
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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Buy young or older bull from somwhere you know or at least somwhere you can see him on farm and get him tested before you have him

    +1
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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Buy an older bull. The AI option is v.time consuming for beef cattle and makes calving drawn out. Get more value for money and benefit of progeny testing with older bull; plus temperament is more known quantity.

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    If you lost the bull after he had a good innings then I would probably buy a good young one, however, if he was young then you have to work out whether buying a young bull is worth it or whether their is better value out there.
    Went to feed one of my stock bulls yesterday to found that he was in pain and his balls had swelled up like footballs. Think a cow must have trod on him when he was lying down. Gave 5k for him 2 years ago. Will have to wait and see, then will prob get him fertility tested before bulling time.
    If he is no good he will go fat and he will have cost me approx 2k per year.

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by properjob View Post
    Buy an older bull. The AI option is v.time consuming for beef cattle and makes calving drawn out. Get more value for money and benefit of progeny testing with older bull; plus temperament is more known quantity.
    If you can call an average calving interval of seven weeks over the last few years, with not much variation, drawn out, you might have a point. As it is if the bull goes isn't performing you might lose a damn sight more than that. If you can't find the time to check your cattle twice a day for twenty minutes or don't have decent handling facilities to bring them in and AI 12 hours after standing heat, perhaps you shouldn't be keeping sucklers?

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    If you can call an average calving interval of seven weeks over the last few years, with not much variation, drawn out, you might have a point. As it is if the bull goes isn't performing you might lose a damn sight more than that. If you can't find the time to check your cattle twice a day for twenty minutes or don't have decent handling facilities to bring them in and AI 12 hours after standing heat, perhaps you shouldn't be keeping sucklers?
    Well if you have a bull you don't need to worry about all that as he will sort it out and as for not keeping sucklers just coss you don't want to mess about well thats silly talk

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    We're hoping to buy a yearling bull this year from the same herd we got one from 6 years ago. We only have 35 cows, and (try to) work off the farm.
    The bull will have had sired over 200 calves for sale as stores, and he works evenings and weekends. He's done well for us.
    I know he is to feed all year around but if I wanted to be watching for cows coing in heat and getting them in for AI I'd still be milking 200.
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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    If you can call an average calving interval of seven weeks over the last few years, with not much variation, drawn out, you might have a point. As it is if the bull goes isn't performing you might lose a damn sight more than that. If you can't find the time to check your cattle twice a day for twenty minutes or don't have decent handling facilities to bring them in and AI 12 hours after standing heat, perhaps you shouldn't be keeping sucklers?
    We had reasonable experiences with syncro and AI, I tend to agree that in Lincs Red's case it may well be the way forward.

    David, what is the availability of high quality semen within the breed and would these bulls normally be outside the value you'd prefer to pay for a bull (Don't answer that if you don't want to though)? Assuming it is available and the bulls concerned are very good ones the genetic improvement that'd come from it could be very interesting. The docility of the Lincs Reds will work in the favour of AI too
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    Senior Member Wee Dram's Avatar
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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    What ratio of cows to bulls do folk think is right? I always recon 30 to 40 cows to a bull depending on age and ability is spot on for trying to achieve a tight calving. So IMO the OP can justify a bull if that is they way he wants to go

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wee Dram View Post
    What ratio of cows to bulls do folk think is right? I always recon 30 to 40 cows to a bull depending on age and ability is spot on for trying to achieve a tight calving. So IMO the OP can justify a bull if that is they way he wants to go
    We aim to run 3 bulls across 115 cows and heifers but each will work 25 to 40 depending upon grazing areas and resulting stocking rate, so totally agree with the ratio you've given. I agree that the OP has enough cows to warrant a bull but as he is running a pedigree herd and retaining his own replacements then AI would also be an interesting alternative.

    The OP also states he's lost one of his stock bulls suggesting there was more than one on the farm so presumably there is at least one remaining? Having seen one of his young bulls being prepared for showing I really hope it wasn't that one as it was a lovely looking beast, if he does choose to buy a bull I'd opt for the young one rather than an older one.
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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Thanks for all the Replies!!
    Foxbox, Don,t Panic it was not the young bull but his sire that I have lost. He went all stiff on his legs and dispite drug treatment, as he came of the drugs he got worse and had to be put down as he was still in the withdrawall periods. The old boy was about 11 years old and I had bought him about 5 or 6 years ago for about 1500 which was a reasonable price for a Lincoln Red at that time.

    AI is not really an option as I have 2 groups of about 15 cows to suit the grassland areas. So I have opted for a 7 year old with a good show history. He was Res. Champ at the Show and sale in 2009. 'Foxbox,The bull in the left hand pen(Walmer Joburg) at the entrance to the Round house.I hope you might have a picture.' I have my young Bull going to the show and sale on the 29th of March at Newark(Winceby Royalist)hopefully!!

    The bull I have bought will be housed away from the others and have bloods and foot trim before he gets anywhere near my other cattle. He might even have a bath of medicated shampoo to be on the safe side. My herd has been graded up using very good sires and is now starting to produce good cattle. It has been a closed herd all the time for desease purposes.
    LR

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    Re: New Bull or Used Bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by LINCS RED View Post

    AI is not really an option as I have 2 groups of about 15 cows to suit the grassland areas. So I have opted for a 7 year old with a good show history. He was Res. Champ at the Show and sale in 2009. 'Foxbox,The bull in the left hand pen(Walmer Joburg) at the entrance to the Round house.I hope you might have a picture.' I have my young Bull going to the show and sale on the 29th of March at Newark(Winceby Royalist)hopefully!!

    LR
    I think I have but can't for the life of me find it at the moment. I'll keep looking, my camera is at the farm so it maybe that I didn't pull it off the memory card.

    Having said that my folders don't look as I expected to find them either but that may be down to a nearly 4 year old who thinks he should be able to work a laptop
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