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Thread: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

  1. #1
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    2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Yesterday 2500 litres of water some how ended up in my bulk tank so has anyone ever had this problem because I haven't a clue where it could have come from and ive checked nearly everything so far. When robots wash at 3pm ive got one more thing to check which is whether the robots are putting there wash water in the tank and the valve on my DX tank is dodgy but even if this is the problem then 3 robots washing 3 times/day shouldn't be using any where near 2500 litres

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    My robots heat 60 litres each of water. No idea to be honest how much they use to rinse out but its never going to be like the water you've got, so it may not be at washtime. As far as I can think, during normal use the only way water can get into the milk line on my machines is through the jetters and the jar washer, both of which are obviously very easy to spot.

    The other place milk comes close to water is the tube cooler. I'm just trying to think outside the box here. If there was a small leak in the tube allowing the two to mix, and you were on borehole at 2 or 3 bar, and you have the setting I have which is for the cooler to run for 30 seconds after the milk is finished pumping, then there might be a possibility there.

    The first thing that sprang to mind was the tank washer because it happened to me. Happened to look in one day and there was a steady and fair dribble of water running from the wash spinner down into the milk. Turned out the cold water valve or solenoid was faulty and had not shut off properly, and the wash pipe from the wash unit was still screwed onto the bottom outlet of the tank. This meant that the water had nowhere to go but up the washline to the spinner. I had not been told this could happen, but well, you learn something new every day.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    I had very similar few weeks ago, turned out the tanker had sucked on an extra 3000litres of air through a slightly loose wash fitting on their tanker, but not enough to trigger the air in line sensor some how. With it being so much I didn't overly panic, I checked every thing but it would take a host of cocks up to get that much water into the silo. They even paid me for it so I needles to say didn't ring up and say owt about it!

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    If the wash cap is not on the tank is it not impossible for water to enter the tank , it just runs out on the floor , or is that just the tanks I've had ? I think the uasual way for that much water to get into the milk with robots is when it seeps in through the top of the jar when a valve is starting to go . A3 next and onwards have the later smaller valves which give very little trouble but the earlier A3's with the big valves are much more prone to trouble , mine are now the later type but did get grief with the earlier type , all depends on your water hardness I think

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    We have tested everything so I've just got to wait till 6pm now to find out if it's done it again. Will arla pay me or will they fine me because it got mixed with the rest of the 8 wheeler tanker?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    The only was we have had water in milk with an A2 is the valve going at the water tank in the robot cupboard, this can be seen by looking at the top of the jar as the machine milks and through badly lined up jetters to liner tops as it washes through leaving water in the pipes. My money is on a stuck valve at the bulk tank letting water through.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    But if its letting robot wash water through then on 3 robots at 60 litres per wash washing 3 times a day is only 540 litres so cant just be that. If its letting bulk tank washings through then its only a 30 litre header tank that has to be pumped down to the tank to wash it

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Its not occurring at wash time as you wouldn't get enough water through at those times to put you up that amount. It is probably not a steady trickle from the robot occurring during milking either because, as it has to pass through the jar one way or another, it will be recorded as extra yield which you would have spotted on the computer.

    To me, that makes the tank prime suspect. The size of the tank washing header is irrelevant because, though what you say is true that the water is pumped to the tank during wash, it can also (at least in our set up) pass through the pump fairly slowly just by the weight of the head of water behind it if you have a faulty wash valve down at the front of the tank. In that case, it wouldn't be anything to do with the robot equipment.

    Its hard to talk about this when different tanks may wash slightly different ways. Does your tanker driver screw on a two inch pipe from the tank wash unit to the main outlet before he leaves?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Yes he does screw a 2 inch wash pipe onto front of tank and I think if we had taken it off after tank had washed then this wouldn't have happened. I went to see tanker driver tonight and he said that night when he unscrewed the wash pipe to screw his milk pipe on he said an unusual amount of water came out so im blaming that at the moment. luckily this time the right amount of milk was in the tank so am I looking at a dodgy sticky valve that randomly sticks? For water to have got in through the front valve then surely 2 things have to happen at once..... water has to some how be coming down the pipe at the same time as the valve hasn't quite shut???

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippy View Post
    Yes he does screw a 2 inch wash pipe onto front of tank and I think if we had taken it off after tank had washed then this wouldn't have happened. I went to see tanker driver tonight and he said that night when he unscrewed the wash pipe to screw his milk pipe on he said an unusual amount of water came out so im blaming that at the moment. luckily this time the right amount of milk was in the tank so am I looking at a dodgy sticky valve that randomly sticks? For water to have got in through the front valve then surely 2 things have to happen at once..... water has to some how be coming down the pipe at the same time as the valve hasn't quite shut???
    Ok. It appears we are closing in on the culprit. The front valve is a red herring. The water is actually entering the tank through the wash system i.e. one of the spinners inside the tank precisely because it is an open-ended line. Probably the cold water valve at the wash unit at the front of your tank has failed to shut. The water is able to pass on through the valve as it would at wash time in order to put cold water in your tank for the rinse down. It can't enter through the main tank outlet which is closed, so it travels up the pipe in the skin of your tank to the spinner at the top. You should always unscrew the two inch pipe from the outlet after washing, so that if this failure occurs, the water will tank the path of least resistance out the pipe onto the floor. Easy fix. Your tank engineer will have it sorted in ten minutes.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    So if its only done it once then do I replace the valve or do I just remember to unscrew it every time incase it does it again? Can my engineer do anything else?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Um. That depends on you I suppose. In my situation, the tank was supplied and serviced on contract by a subsidiary of our co-op. Once a fault is reported, they take responsibility in most cases for any loss that occurs from that point on. It was in both our interests that it wouldn't happen again, so job done.

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Have seen this happen many times, when the wash cap has been left on the tank after washing and either the hot or cold solenoid valve has stuck on, it has nowere to go but through the pump and down into the tank through the wash jet!

    edit I see someone has already explained.

    You will need to get the valve looked at, if it happens again and you have the wash cap off you could run your hot water out and not have enough temperature to properly wash.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    I want to know what size of tank you have that you had room for an extra 2500 litres!!

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    8000 litre tank and I'm producing 5200 of milk. Hot and cold water valves are ordered!

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Q. What is the extra charge per month for everyday lifting for you? For me, it is 300, and I'm looking at a new tank, but the cost is crazy. Got a quote for 19k to trade in my old tank (8600l DX with R22 gas, and a leaking plate) to a 13000. If I was on everyday collection, it would take five years to wipe its face. But my profile isn't level and we might expect to get up to half the year squeezed into our tank EOD (plus perhaps with a little bit of 'additional' help). That could make it up to ten years, but there is peace of mind to count on too (not having to stop the robots when the tanker is late etc). What are your reasons for sticking with a smallish tank?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    My transport is only 200/month. I wouldn't say my tank is small. Im just about at capacity with 3 robots milking 160 cows and I still have 2500 litres spare room in my tank when im averaging 34 kg/day. Ive always been every day collection and im not sure I could justify the cost of going to every other day collection.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippy View Post
    My transport is only 200/month. I wouldn't say my tank is small. Im just about at capacity with 3 robots milking 160 cows and I still have 2500 litres spare room in my tank when im averaging 34 kg/day. Ive always been every day collection and im not sure I could justify the cost of going to every other day collection.
    Yes, with such an artificially low transport cost, I can see how it wouldn't make sense for you to invest in steel. Our transport is capped at about 250 per month for EOD, but you add on 300 for everyday. Our co-op has been very keen for years to create incentive for people to move to EOD. I didn't really mean your tank was small per se, but small relative to your output on our terms because we are set up price wise to encourage EOD. Your true collection cost for that volume would probably need to be somewhere in the region of a grand per month, and that would be on the cheap side.

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    Q. What is the extra charge per month for everyday lifting for you? For me, it is 300, and I'm looking at a new tank, but the cost is crazy. Got a quote for 19k to trade in my old tank (8600l DX with R22 gas, and a leaking plate) to a 13000. If I was on everyday collection, it would take five years to wipe its face. But my profile isn't level and we might expect to get up to half the year squeezed into our tank EOD (plus perhaps with a little bit of 'additional' help). That could make it up to ten years, but there is peace of mind to count on too (not having to stop the robots when the tanker is late etc). What are your reasons for sticking with a smallish tank?
    What make of tank were you thinking off?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullyvernon View Post
    What make of tank were you thinking off?
    I have only spoken to our own supplier so far.

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    I have only spoken to our own supplier so far.
    And what make is that?

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullyvernon View Post
    And what make is that?
    united

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    Re: 2500 litres of water in my bulk tank :-(

    Fullwood Packo

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