Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33

Thread: Water pipeline recognition payment

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Water pipeline recognition payment

    Looks like our local water company want to lay a 650mm pipe right across our farm. The pipe and associated exclusion zone on either side would split our land in two with regard to any future development potential.

    We are trying to negotiate a recognition payment figure that will be acceptable to both parties but the agent for the water company seems unwilling to discuss this matter beyond saying that standard policy will be followed ( but so far not telling us what std policy actually is...).

    Does anyone have any recent experience of recognition payment rates achieved for this kind of what i believe is referred to as 'injurious affection'?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    M1 - M18 - M62 Triangle
    Posts
    704

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Get a good local land agent - NOW.
    There are more engines killed through lack of water than through lack of oil

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Done that. He and I currently being stonewalled by water company's agent.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,250

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    I might be wrong but I think you will be lucky to obtain any compensation for what might occur in the future on green belt/agricultural land. We had a main sewer go through our area it did not affect us unduly by its position. However a single lady householder on the route had it pass through a side plot which perhaps could have been developed in the future with infill. She did not win any compensation for lost future potential.
    You ought to employ a good agent and claim back from the utility for reasonable costs. The sub contractors may need watching whilst working to avoid encroachment beyond the agreed working width and to ensure topsoil is carefully bunded. Make sure they compact properly over the pipe but at the same time you do not want to finish with a permanent hump. They may be able to lose excess spoil over the working width before replacing topsoil.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    43

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Water pipeline are the worst to deal with. Keep eye on the contractors, they cut through drains and didn't fix, the land was suppose to be put back to how it was, it is the roughest, wettest and still cannot grow grass like it use to, we struggle to get compensation and no contacts to discuss problems with.
    At least on a gas pipe line we park 13 ton digger near the line and there here like a shot and we can tell them the problem.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bury St Edmunds
    Posts
    1,054

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    6 years ago we certainly had a portion of our payment for. A similar pipe allocated to loss future potential
    in our case this would have been a very low potential mind.

    the strange thing in my mind this was fairly easily negotiated being a percentage of land value.
    the difficulty we had was claiming for loss caused by their activities.
    especially the need for a second complete new drainage system.
    wierdly the put a drainage system in before placing the pipe which wrecked the work they had done.
    we had to prove this by digging into these first drains to prove they had been totally silted.
    this was in a field which had been drained 5 years previously, so 3 sets. Of drain 6 years
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Some development regarding NFU interest in helping to sort this issue.

    If anyone else has had a problem with Severn Trent Water company attitude toward fair recognition figure to be paid since 2010, they are welcome to get in touch with me and I will fwd their names to my contact in NFU.

  8. #8

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Make sure at every meeting you take notes of any promises and get them to sign the notes for instance placing of manholes as they will go back on verbal agrrements.keep notes of everything including your time which you bill at management or consultant level afterall you are a business man not a labourer. If work starts buy a digital camera .nothing frightens contractors like a camera .take photos of everything it will help your agent .haven't deallt with severn trent but welsh water are the pits .we srarted out being told we were having one 6 inch sewer pipe going across land but they ended up puting 9 inch one way and 6 coming back andcontractor broke all verbal promises even reinstated and reseeded and continued to travel over ground untiill I turned up with camera

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Shrops/Staffs/Cheshire borders
    Posts
    296

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    They went across what was 'our land' at the time in 1983

    You can still see the line on the latest google maps 20 years later

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,250

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Incidentally, although small beer compared with the OP and future loss of value, don't forget to log your hours spent on dealing with anything to do with this project and claim a sensible rate for it.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    535

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Try refusing accesses if they don't give you what you want . Get a good agent ! One thing to remember about agents is they look after themselves meaning they do deals with you for 1000's but they might do deals with with water company's etc for 10'000s or more . But I suspect you know all this already .

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    All good stuff thanks.

    Agent is top man (and family friend of many years standing) and camera lives in my truck.

    Diary also in the truck and I run an aviation maintenance company as part of the farm diversification, so time is chargeable at Chief Engineer rates - Lots of time still needs to be put aside for this work (and made up for to keep aircraft customers happy) and no payment for my time is going to get back that additional time spent at work instead of living.

    still, we keep plugging away at them and who knows, we might just see some progress now NFU have taken up cudgel re compensation on behalf of affected farmers on this pipe route.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Posts
    3

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    [QUOTE=Charliesixtysix;233566]

    I run an aviation maintenance company as part of the farm diversification,



    Now that's what i call a diversification project!!!!!!

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Well, we have had them here for over six months now and are thouroughly fed up with the whole job.

    Pretty much every horror story listed above has happened and they have engineered lots more new ones to dispair us with.

    The only light on the horizon is that it has finally dawned on the contractors that I have not been making up the fact that they are working on a flood plain and nature has not been reading their timeline for works - more work done in last 2 weeks than in previous 2 months......hopefully they will finish before the year end.

    Girding our loins for the comp battle next.....

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    9

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    So have the NFU been any help to you in the end?

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Northants
    Posts
    1,155

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Charliesixtysix View Post
    Well, we have had them here for over six months now and are thouroughly fed up with the whole job.

    Pretty much every horror story listed above has happened and they have engineered lots more new ones to dispair us with.

    The only light on the horizon is that it has finally dawned on the contractors that I have not been making up the fact that they are working on a flood plain and nature has not been reading their timeline for works - more work done in last 2 weeks than in previous 2 months......hopefully they will finish before the year end.

    Girding our loins for the comp battle next.....
    Ah, your another farmer who tried to be clever and tell them what they'd find when they started digging then?! I'm not sure if it offends their professional pride or if they are just ignorant but they do seem to have a stubborn belief that they will be able to complete projects at their own speed and in their own way without ever encountering any issues along the way, especially ones that farmers think may be issues. Our cable guys were here 4 years instead of 6 months and hit running sand on the neighbouring farm; they'd been warned it was there but hadn't shown up on the survey so didn't believe it. Somehow they managed to write off 2 large dumpers and wreck a 360 in the sandy soup they created before they decided to alter their approach .

    Make sure you keep taking pictures and check the width of their easement, there would be grounds for additional payments if they are outside of it anywhere along your route...
    Stay in Northamptonshire - meadowviewcottages.co.uk

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    scottish borders
    Posts
    28

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    If it is possible in England to refuse then do so. Scottish Water were a nightmare, their main contractors asleep and the sub contractor seemed to make it up as they went along. Good Luck tho........

  18. #18
    Junior Member effinfarmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    ROSS SHIRE
    Posts
    16

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    I have gone off the idea of an "agent", as they do sometimes work to their own benefit.
    What I do now is have an adviser, with all negotiations going through me. It speeds up the process, and keeps you in full control of all thats being said to the utility companies and their sub contractors.
    And they still pay for my adviser

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    NFU very supportive and have sought Council's opinion re recognition payment at their own cost - useful stuff, the value of which will become apparent at the final reckoning.


    I have made lots of mistakes along the way and would do it differently if faced with this again - the main lesson learned is to agree to nothing and record every conversation/ meeting. If they need anythign from you, make sure you demand money up front ( as you sure as hell will not get it afterwards...).

    Nightmare.

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quick update on this.

    The contractors did finally finish work here in April 2015 - just a little over 12 months after coming on site.....

    Our compensation claim was finally agreed ( well not agreed, but was the best we could negotiate without going to court) in July. However, we are now 'enjoying' an indefinite delay in payment - But on the plus side we are benefiting from the generous 0.5% below bank base rate statutory interest on payment due.

    Not the best experience and not over yet, but if nothing else, hopefully anyone presented with the threat of Severn Trent pipeline work in their land might be better prepared having seen this thread.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bury St Edmunds
    Posts
    1,054

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Glad you have got through the nightmare
    hope you still have some hair left , even if it is probably gone white by now!

    At one point I severely questioned my sanity, I just could not understand how they could employ so many muppets!
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Northants
    Posts
    1,155

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Charliesixtysix View Post
    Quick update on this.

    The contractors did finally finish work here in April 2015 - just a little over 12 months after coming on site.....

    Our compensation claim was finally agreed ( well not agreed, but was the best we could negotiate without going to court) in July. However, we are now 'enjoying' an indefinite delay in payment - But on the plus side we are benefiting from the generous 0.5% below bank base rate statutory interest on payment due.

    Not the best experience and not over yet, but if nothing else, hopefully anyone presented with the threat of Severn Trent pipeline work in their land might be better prepared having seen this thread.
    Good luck and don't let them forget about it
    Stay in Northamptonshire - meadowviewcottages.co.uk

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    North Yorkshire
    Posts
    102

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    I used to work for a water company,

    we had pipelines laid on some land ( i believe the can (or could as laid in 70's) basically force you to have it) and some farmers were very savy and had std compensation but did not agree to any wayleave,

    This means that if you did need the main moving in the future the would have to do it at there cost (which happend on a few occasions).

    this is the direction i would go, i don't think you have a chance of claiming more for future 'potential'

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bury St Edmunds
    Posts
    1,054

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer_Joe View Post
    I used to work for a water company,

    we had pipelines laid on some land ( i believe the can (or could as laid in 70's) basically force you to have it) and some farmers were very savy and had std compensation but did not agree to any wayleave,

    This means that if you did need the main moving in the future the would have to do it at there cost (which happend on a few occasions).

    this is the direction i would go, i don't think you have a chance of claiming more for future 'potential'
    From our experience , having had a previous main, it would;d appear that they had no knowledge of the paperwork which was done at the time.
    We were aware of a way leave, but this does not mean they can come back and put in a second.
    It would have allowed them to replace the first but to do so they would have had to remove the old one.
    I think that they will always goes for a new way leave
    How that leaves compensation when it has already been gained I am not sure
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Sam_TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cleveland. UK
    Posts
    582

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by custard View Post
    If it is possible in England to refuse then do so. Scottish Water were a nightmare, their main contractors asleep and the sub contractor seemed to make it up as they went along. Good Luck tho........
    Don't think you can refuse them.


    See Code of Practice Pipelaying (pdf)
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...03073922,d.ZGU

    The period of notice allows time for any objections to be addressed before we start work. At the end of that time we hope that matters between us will have been agreed. However, if your objections have not been overcome and you do not permit us access to your land in accordance with the notice we gave you, we are able to apply to a magistrate for a warrant to do so.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    925

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_TM View Post
    Don't think you can refuse them.


    See Code of Practice Pipelaying (pdf)
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...03073922,d.ZGU

    The period of notice allows time for any objections to be addressed before we start work. At the end of that time we hope that matters between us will have been agreed. However, if your objections have not been overcome and you do not permit us access to your land in accordance with the notice we gave you, we are able to apply to a magistrate for a warrant to do so.
    I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can refuse them. However, if you play that card too early and make them go for a warrant, you're stuffed.

    They will prefer entry by agreement, rather than a warrant, if possible. It's all very well them saying "objections will be addressed before we start" but, be assured, stuff will arise during the work you hadn't thought of (or they didn't tell you about).
    If they're on by agreement you can stop the work and refuse entry at any time. They will, of course, then go for a warrant if they have to. But that will take several days, at least, of men and machines standing idle mid project.

    Nothing makes them wake up and take notice more than that. Trust me on this

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bury St Edmunds
    Posts
    1,054

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can refuse them. However, if you play that card too early and make them go for a warrant, you're stuffed.

    They will prefer entry by agreement, rather than a warrant, if possible. It's all very well them saying "objections will be addressed before we start" but, be assured, stuff will arise during the work you hadn't thought of (or they didn't tell you about).
    If they're on by agreement you can stop the work and refuse entry at any time. They will, of course, then go for a warrant if they have to. But that will take several days, at least, of men and machines standing idle mid project.

    Nothing makes them wake up and take notice more than that. Trust me on this
    Absolutely correct. I have been here and it is very useful to have this back up of non co-operation if and when things go pear shaped.

    Such as deciding to put a manhole in the middle of a large field , when you had agreed on manholes only in field margins.
    The realisation they would have to go to court and be held up for possibly weeks suddenly meant this absolutely essential air valve which could only go in this one specific point, moved 200 metres.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

  28. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Sam_TM, MC130 and Exfarmer are all spot on.

    Keeping powder dry with regard to lockout option certainly paid off when things got really ugly here.

    We had to kick them out and wait until the two year old-esque tantrum had subsided a couple of times.

    Both times were tense but did eventually get some degree of sense out of main contractors once they realised the subbies would not force the issue and were sitting on their thumbs on day rate awaiting a resolution of dispute.

    Another week goes by without any sign of payment of comp claim though........

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bury St Edmunds
    Posts
    1,054

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Charliesixtysix View Post
    Sam_TM, MC130 and Exfarmer are all spot on.

    Keeping powder dry with regard to lockout option certainly paid off when things got really ugly here.

    We had to kick them out and wait until the two year old-esque tantrum had subsided a couple of times.

    Both times were tense but did eventually get some degree of sense out of main contractors once they realised the subbies would not force the issue and were sitting on their thumbs on day rate awaiting a resolution of dispute.

    Another week goes by without any sign of payment of comp claim though........
    what really got my goat about the whole thing was, we had an 18" pipeline go through over a mile of the farm.
    The compensation we received for 2 years inconvenience and sterilisation of the ground, It would have been one year but they had not got the money to go first year so delayed the job from a late spring start to the next Christmas. This meant the land was not planted the first year but no compensation!
    The main recipients of the water companies largesse were first the environmental surveys , up to 5,000 for each days work.
    To be fair the chap had to come 25 miles at night to check his newt traps!
    Second the agents.
    They had the cheek to tell me that my daily inspections of the route, were part of regular farm management so should not be compensated!
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

  30. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    23

    Re: Water pipeline recognition payment

    Quote Originally Posted by Charliesixtysix View Post

    ......Our compensation claim was finally agreed ( well not agreed, but was the best we could negotiate without going to court) in July. However, we are now 'enjoying' an indefinite delay in payment - But on the plus side we are benefiting from the generous 0.5% below bank base rate statutory interest on payment due..........
    Another few weeks go by with Severn Trent not having paid up.

    As mentioned above, statutory interest on late payment is apparently set at 0% at present, so there is no incentive at all for them to pay that I can ascertain......

    Our agent and I have chased this weekly since July but not received anything other than bland blocking reponses to date.

    Getting more than a little fed up now - Anyone here got any suggestions of how to get the monies due?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •