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Thread: 532-125 loadall broked

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    532-125 loadall broked

    My old man started up the loadall this morning and he says he lifted the boom, drove it forward about 6 foot, stopped then put it in reverse an it wouldn't move went to shift the boom again but wouldn't move although the steering and front jacks did, then there was a whailing noise coming from it and nothing would work and then the transmission oil pressure light came on with a buzzer. So he checked the hydraulic oil and it was on the bottom of the dip stick, topped it up. checked the transmission oil, no sign of it on the dip stick so put some in, then some more, 4 litres later it was at the mark so was obviously v low. could have been for some time. now when you start it there is no whine but nothing works at all and engine seems to rev as free as a bird. So, where do I start looking? would it be a pump or a drive coupling/ clutch between engine and transmission. very annoying its a 2002 model but only has 4400 hrs on the clock as not used all that often and simple thing like checking the oil levels from time to time to keep it healthy and save this issues with break downs.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Stripped the splines on the drive coupling bolted to the flywheel?

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    This is what I thought it would be. Looks like we will have to pull the engine off for a look. What is likely to have caused this is it just the low oil level?
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member T P's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    It would be worthwhile removing or slackening the transmission filter off and running it for a few seconds until it pumps some oil out to be sure it isn't just airlocked. once air gets picked up by the pump and pressurised into the galleries it can be very effective at keeping the pump from priming again. There is a gauze somewhere in the transmission case that might need cleaned too. The splines can strip on the torque converter where it slides onto the input shaft and although I've seen it on bigger heavier machines I haven't heard of your model doing it,( I'm not sure if you even have the same type of transmission) Providing your transmission is the same as the older machines _if the splines are stripped you will have the correct pressure at the clutch pack test ports but no drive .In that case the converter could be swopped for a reconditioned one with a new hub in the past but it's a while since I got one.As it's welded together it's a specialist job to cut the weld out on a lathe and then re-weld it once it's repaired so not user serviceable. I will check what transmission is in your model in case I'm talking rot.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    sounds like problem in the 90 deg angle drive/ drive coupling as said.

    The angle gearbox on the JCBs has oil pressure fed form the transmission to lubricate it so maybe with low oil it starved the angle box of oil and it seized up breaking the drive coupling? or maybe just one of them things and nothing to do with low oil?

    Got one of them models I look after but couple years older than that transmission and angle box & drive coupling are original as far as I know and she has gone round the hour clock and then some! Total of almost 17k! engine is original too all be it getting very tired now along with the rest of the machine

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Would the hydraulics stop if it was the torque spline but then would the transmission stop if there was no prime on the pump?
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    very confusing symtoms there?

    loss of transmission drive
    Loss of boom extension possibly some other services?

    But steering and jack legs work? think its a triple hyd pump on these? and driven off the angle gearbox, no separate hydraulic pump on engine unless maybe one for the rad fan?

    Still it must be the coupling on the flywheel I think. Engine out.

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Ok so the coupling being broke might not be the biggest problem if the box is seized it could be a costly fix
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by T P View Post
    It would be worthwhile removing or slackening the transmission filter off and running it for a few seconds until it pumps some oil out to be sure it isn't just airlocked. once air gets picked up by the pump and pressurised into the galleries it can be very effective at keeping the pump from priming again. There is a gauze somewhere in the transmission case that might need cleaned too. The splines can strip on the torque converter where it slides onto the input shaft and although I've seen it on bigger heavier machines I haven't heard of your model doing it,( I'm not sure if you even have the same type of transmission) Providing your transmission is the same as the older machines _if the splines are stripped you will have the correct pressure at the clutch pack test ports but no drive .In that case the converter could be swopped for a reconditioned one with a new hub in the past but it's a while since I got one.As it's welded together it's a specialist job to cut the weld out on a lathe and then re-weld it once it's repaired so not user serviceable. I will check what transmission is in your model in case I'm talking rot.
    By splines we don't mean the splines in the converter TP. engine coupled to angle gearbox, hydraulic pumps driven off angle gearbox, angle gearbox drives transmission. Given the symtoms (even if a little odd as I posted) must be the engine/angle box coupling.

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    very confusing symtoms there?

    loss of transmission drive
    Loss of boom extension possibly some other services?

    But steering and jack legs work? think its a triple hyd pump on these? and driven off the angle gearbox, no separate hydraulic pump on engine unless maybe one for the rad fan?

    Still it must be the coupling on the flywheel I think. Engine out.
    The steering and legs only worked temporarily once it started whining everything stopped
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    Ok so the coupling being broke might not be the biggest problem if the box is seized it could be a costly fix
    if box is seized and that is a big IF, would only be new bearings I would think.

    I would guess the angle box is lubed from one of the trans oil cooler supplys? so the fact you had some drive for a bit would indicate some oil in there pumping around. if it was only low by 4 litres then that wouldn't make enough difference I don't think.

    The oil level on these is a pain, best to paint the stick white or black makes it easier to read, for the final level chack on JCB's you run machine for a couple mins then stop it, walk round and pull dipstick out to check.

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    By splines we don't mean the splines in the converter TP. engine coupled to angle gearbox, hydraulic pumps driven off angle gearbox, angle gearbox drives transmission. Given the symtoms (even if a little odd as I posted) must be the engine/angle box coupling.
    This makes sense to me, the boom being quite low about 3 feet off the ground it will be difficult to get in to unbolt it.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    The steering and legs only worked temporarily once it started whining everything stopped
    under the engine bell housing there is a rubber bung I think, take it out and have a look see. think they have a rubber coupling in there too with splines in the centre? not sure not actually done jcb one yet. Do loads of Manitou ones but they are different set up.

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Thanks for the replies thus far. Will get to look at it a bit further tomorrow and will post any developments.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    This makes sense to me, the boom being quite low about 3 feet off the ground it will be difficult to get in to unbolt it.
    Oh yes that may be an issue to get to the top bell housing bolts

    what you may have to do it get another machine to lift the boom up, it is easy to remove the lift ram hoses even with the boom that low. you can either remove the lift ram lock out valve and lift the boom manually with the other machine (bit messy) or my prefured method remove the lift ram hoses make up 2 tempory hoses to connect to the second machines aux hydraulics and lift it like that

    Make a couple of ram props to fit on the compensation rams or just fit the one for the main lift ram which should be bolted to front of chassis but this is very short and may not be enough to gain access? or make a really big long one for the main lift ram but its a very long ram fully out.

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    Senior Member T P's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    OK I've looked up my manuals on another pc and you have the old ITL powershift setup all be it connected at 90 degrees to the engine by a gearbox and featuring an electronic controller. In the attached picture you can see the torque converter represented. The first thing I would check after ensuring it wasn't just airlocked is whether the converter is spinning along with the engine once you engage forward or reverse. If the converter isn't spinning when you engage forward or reverse the mechanical part between the flywheel and converter has failed, best case a coupling gone, 90 degree gearbox gone__not so good. There does appear as someone else mentioned to be a bung in the bottom of the housing marked "A" which a torch could be shone through to see if it's turning. Sensible precautions taken to ensure you don't get run over!!! if it suddenly moves. ie all four wheels off the ground using axle stands or a pit used. The transmission oil pump will be driven off the two lugs on the converter housing so if it pumps plenty of oil out the slack filter it's working or alternatively stick a gauge in the test port. The splines inside the converter do fail as I've fixed a few by fitting reconditioned converters, fortunately the transmission input shaft seems to be stronger stuff even if it is the size of something you'd propel a ford Mondeo with rather than a telehandler! If there's been a mechanical failure between the flywheel and the gearbox that will explain the hydraulic pumps stopping too, if your lucky it'll just be a splines, a coupling or drive plate. Once you look through the bung you'll know if the gearbox and converter are turning.


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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Quote Originally Posted by T P View Post
    OK I've looked up my manuals on another pc and you have the old ITL powershift setup all be it connected at 90 degrees to the engine by a gearbox and featuring an electronic controller. In the attached picture you can see the torque converter represented. The first thing I would check after ensuring it wasn't just airlocked is whether the converter is spinning along with the engine once you engage forward or reverse. If the converter isn't spinning when you engage forward or reverse the mechanical part between the flywheel and converter has failed, best case a coupling gone, 90 degree gearbox gone__not so good. There does appear as someone else mentioned to be a bung in the bottom of the housing marked "A" which a torch could be shone through to see if it's turning. Sensible precautions taken to ensure you don't get run over!!! if it suddenly moves. ie all four wheels off the ground using axle stands or a pit used. The transmission oil pump will be driven off the two lugs on the converter housing so if it pumps plenty of oil out the slack filter it's working or alternatively stick a gauge in the test port. The splines inside the converter do fail as I've fixed a few by fitting reconditioned converters, fortunately the transmission input shaft seems to be stronger stuff even if it is the size of something you'd propel a ford Mondeo with rather than a telehandler! If there's been a mechanical failure between the flywheel and the gearbox that will explain the hydraulic pumps stopping too, if your lucky it'll just be a splines, a coupling or drive plate. Once you look through the bung you'll know if the gearbox and converter are turning.

    Yes thats one of the inspection bungs but thats the one on the trans converter Bell housing. There is another on the engine bell housing I think. The fact that hyd pumps are not working aswell surgests converter wont be turning.

    You can see the back of the engine in that pic tp but does not so a bung on bell housing but sure there is one?

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    There is another bung/inspection hole under the engine bell housing, found it this morning and yes the engine flywheel is spinning and the coupling next to it is not. so looks like will need to pull the engine out. don't think the boom has to be lifted as the bolts look like all on the engine side so bonnet and engine cover off would do I think. unless the transfer box is seized as mentioned then maybe it will. might have to get a mechanic in as we are busy just now with other things.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: 532-125 loadall broked

    Got her fixed today Mark of Mark J Wood Agri-sales, Inch. came and fitted a new damper plate. cost a little over 1K just for parts, not had his bill in yet but was engine off old part out new part in in one day jobbie so hopefully not too steep. all seems fine for now.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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