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Thread: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

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    Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Has anyone any experience of the Aberdale or Abertex cross mule ewes?

    Saw an ad for some Abertex cross Welsh Mule ewe lambs and was keen on them, but all sold

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    no experience but Aberdale cross mule would be horribly prolific !

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    As stated, Aberdale x mules would be way too prolific for their own good.....and as far as I'm aware an Abertex is just a standard grass fed texel bred by innovis without the inverdale gene and is mostly used as a terminal sire.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt88 View Post
    As stated, Aberdale x mules would be way too prolific for their own good.....and as far as I'm aware an Abertex is just a standard grass fed texel bred by innovis without the inverdale gene and is mostly used as a terminal sire.
    So could you explain.....what is the Inverdale gene?

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    The Inverdale Gene makes them prolific, not sure on the science part but they have bred them to have at least two lambs often many more.

    You almost need to negative flush them.

    Got some Aberfield cross blackface lambs here (tup them next year), its early days but looking good so far.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    The inverdale gene is a single dominant gene found in texels (and other breeds in NZ) that when present in a female increases number of lambs per ewe by 0.6 ,and as opposed to normal flushing, the ewes carrying this gene need to be negatively flushed on poorer pasture to prevent too many lambs.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt88 View Post
    The inverdale gene is a single dominant gene found in texels (and other breeds in NZ) that when present in a female increases number of lambs per ewe by 0.6 ,and as opposed to normal flushing, the ewes carrying this gene need to be negatively flushed on poorer pasture to prevent too many lambs.
    So do Innovis only use NZ Texels?

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    So do Innovis only use NZ Texels?
    I don't know if they are Nz texels but they are recorded for maternal traits and reared on a more commercial system than most Texels are

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    I think the original importation came from new Zealand into Scotland sort of 12 -15 yrs ago ,when innovis took over they used some welsh blood in the line , not sure what brecnock ? , since then they've used top uk texel blood , and in the last few years testing top nz texel blood . All lamb outside and are recorded for lamb survival , ease of birth , worm egg counts etc

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    So do they use Signet Ebv's?
    looked but can't seem to find any sign of them.
    Perhaps just not looking in the right place.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    NO they use in house recording system , they record a few things that signet doesn't

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by cheviot 53 View Post
    NO they use in house recording system , they record a few things that signet doesn't
    OH...that sounds a bit convenient.
    Not very errr, hmmm, well ..............
    Sort of your own system.
    Hmmmmm

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Pretty sure they weren't convinced by signets recording of maternal ability etc, the method they use Is related to scoring ewes on behaviour when the lambs are tagged in field , I.e. Does she stand her ground or does she stand a distance away and watch or does she piss off... In my opinion a better way of recording true maternal ability.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt88 View Post
    Pretty sure they weren't convinced by signets recording of maternal ability etc, the method they use Is related to scoring ewes on behaviour when the lambs are tagged in field , I.e. Does she stand her ground or does she stand a distance away and watch or does she piss off... In my opinion a better way of recording true maternal ability.
    Sounds a bit like the bull breeders estimate of birth weight!
    Not very independant.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    You pays your money you takes your chance , signets within flock recording only tells you what is the best in that flock on that farm under that management , mostly small flocks , at least innovis have large flocks for comparison . plus innovis cover the ram until next May after purchase .

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by cheviot 53 View Post
    You pays your money you takes your chance , signets within flock recording only tells you what is the best in that flock on that farm under that management , mostly small flocks , at least innovis have large flocks for comparison . plus innovis cover the ram until next May after purchase .
    Top marks for a business plan.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by cheviot 53 View Post
    You pays your money you takes your chance , signets within flock recording only tells you what is the best in that flock on that farm under that management , mostly small flocks , at least innovis have large flocks for comparison . plus innovis cover the ram until next May after purchase .
    Signet allows you to compare between flocks and different managements systems, that's the whole idea of BLUP.

    Innovis wanted more traits recorded IIRC, as posted above, but don't they still use Signet to do the analysis, just not comparable to other flocks/breeds and not publicly available. No reason it needs to be available to all either really.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    Signet allows you to compare between flocks and different managements systems, that's the whole idea of BLUP.

    Innovis wanted more traits recorded IIRC, as posted above, but don't they still use Signet to do the analysis, just not comparable to other flocks/breeds and not publicly available. No reason it needs to be available to all either really.
    Hmmmm...... independent system errr gives more confidence.
    So how do they work the ebv's in from the parents and grandparents etc?
    As I understand Blup etc the more generations the more accuracy.
    Are the BFL and Texels Ebv's used as part of the final figure?

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    QUOTE from catalogue - rams have been evaluated on innovis's own system ,based on the same scientific principles as the national scheme operated by signet . These EBVs are only comparable within the innovis populations. I can not find any sign of the signet logo so assume they have no connection

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Hmmmm...... independent system errr gives more confidence.
    So how do they work the ebv's in from the parents and grandparents etc?
    As I understand Blup etc the more generations the more accuracy.
    Are the BFL and Texels Ebv's used as part of the final figure?
    They aren't just straight first crosses though, they are trying to produce a stabilised hybrid, where the parents, grandparents, etc would already have been evaluated in the same BLUP analysis. Not sure how they treat genetics coming in from outside, but wouldn't have thought they were bringing that much in now.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    They aren't just straight first crosses though, they are trying to produce a stabilised hybrid, where the parents, grandparents, etc would already have been evaluated in the same BLUP analysis. Not sure how they treat genetics coming in from outside, but wouldn't have thought they were bringing that much in now.
    are they not still using Bfl tups on their Texel ewe to produce most Aberfield? They bought some nice charolais rams in Builth wells apparently for their abermax program

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by ford4000 View Post
    are they not still using Bfl tups on their Texel ewe to produce most Aberfield? They bought some nice charolais rams in Builth wells apparently for their abermax program
    That's what I thought!
    At least what I have been told.
    Making me wonder about the EBVs......without previous generations of figures how do they work?
    gee

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Whats an aberdale ram etc cost to purchase?

    Been thinking about using one to cross to keep replacements, just wondering if its viable.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    I would guess that there would be a ready market for the right type of Finnish Landrace x Texel tups. They would be ideal for crossing with Mules or Cheviots to breed replacements.

    Selection for fertility would not be an issue, so the Finns and Texels would could be selected mainly on skins, confirmation and longevity.
    And the Finn X Texel females would also be reasonable breeding sheep for a niche market.

    But are there any good Finnish Landrace sheep left in Britain? Preferably without pink noses and white feet.

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    They also purchased the supreme ch BFL ram lamb with a high index, I would guess the charolais also had high index . You can only lease aberdale rams . HIGHLANDERS have finn nzt and Romney blood in them ??

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by cheviot 53 View Post
    They also purchased the supreme ch BFL ram lamb with a high index, I would guess the charolais also had high index . You can only lease aberdale rams . HIGHLANDERS have finn nzt and Romney blood in them ??
    Supreme Champion where?

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Builth wells

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by robbo12 View Post
    Whats an aberdale ram etc cost to purchase?

    Been thinking about using one to cross to keep replacements, just wondering if its viable.
    Budget for around a 1000 from what I've seen, best ones make more, poorer ones less

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Can't buy Aberdales , only hire, best Rams are 800

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    Re: Aberdale/Abertex X Mules

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    I would guess that there would be a ready market for the right type of Finnish Landrace x Texel tups. They would be ideal for crossing with Mules or Cheviots to breed replacements.Selection for fertility would not be an issue, so the Finns and Texels would could be selected mainly on skins, confirmation and longevity.And the Finn X Texel females would also be reasonable breeding sheep for a niche market.But are there any good Finnish Landrace sheep left in Britain? Preferably without pink noses and white feet.
    Whats wrong with pink noses and feet? And don't tell me it's because pink feet suffer more foot trouble because that myth has long been busted.

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