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Thread: The killing fields?

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    The killing fields?

    This should wind the industry up:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...0m-farm-deaths

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Blah blah, having read it ,, it appears to be the usual lefty green sandle/sock wearing guardian readers slant on the job,,,

    i notice there was no mention of the slaughter of cattle with TB ( or not as the case may be) which cost the tax payer a tidy sum,,, when it could be better spent perhaps assisting Brock into an area with no or fewer cattle,,,

    what was the poor husbandry comment about,,, yeah right coz as we know all farmers treat their animals in such a piss poor way, don't feed em enough, bed on fresh air in a shitty shed, then expect them to yield over 10,000 lts of milk, or top the mart et al,,,,
    It's a bit u fortunate that the sort of folk who read that tripe actually believe its all goof true reporting,,,

    utter bunkum IMO
    Big Vern..... Stay low Move faster

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Farming is death, shit and sex as my grandad used to say. I feel there is a lack of knowledge about how food is produced in the UK but I'm not sure who's fault that is. Most guardian readers would have been delighted see my rare breed leghorn hens skipping about in the grass this year. Took me all year to raise them in my uber welfare outdoor system but then one night Mr fox got in and killed all but one. One was still in the nest box with her head chewed off. They hadn't even layed an egg. What am I supposed to do next? Put up a better fence? A wall? A roof? I bet most of them have no hesitation in buying a chicken or bacon sarnie with no idea where the meat came from. But when they buy their joint for sunday roast, it has to be the best.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Farming is death, shit and sex as my grandad used to say. I feel there is a lack of knowledge about how food is produced in the UK but I'm not sure who's fault that is. Most guardian readers would have been delighted see my rare breed leghorn hens skipping about in the grass this year. Took me all year to raise them in my uber welfare outdoor system but then one night Mr fox got in and killed all but one. One was still in the nest box with her head chewed off. They hadn't even layed an egg. Whoat am I supposed to do next? Put up a better fence? A wall? A roof? I bet most of them have no hesitation in buying a chicken or bacon sarnie with no idea where the meat came from. But when they buy their joint for sunday roast, it has to be the best.
    Get gun licence, buy shot gun, lie in wait shoot Reynard,,,,,, he (Reynard) doesn't care if its a Rhode Island Red, a buff Orpington,,, it's just dinner and if its making a noise it's a gonna....
    Big Vern..... Stay low Move faster

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Vern View Post
    Get gun licence, buy shot gun, lie in wait shoot Reynard,,,,,, he (Reynard) doesn't care if its a Rhode Island Red, a buff Orpington,,, it's just dinner and if its making a noise it's a gonna....
    I've got a 12 but I think that might put them off lay for a week if I let rip after dark. He had a hell of a job getting out of the electric net by the look of the digging and scraping around the perimeter and didn't take a single bird, just killed them all but one who flew out. No rabbits now because of Mixy so he's hungry but I'm hoping the shocks he got trying to escape have freaked him out enough not to come back. I've been up with the beam a few nights and tried to squeak him up but nothing. If I do see him again it'll be a subsonic .22LR between the eyeballs.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Vern View Post
    Get gun licence, buy shot gun, lie in wait shoot Reynard,,,,,, he (Reynard) doesn't care if its a Rhode Island Red, a buff Orpington,,, it's just dinner and if its making a noise it's a gonna....
    I think you are wrong there Vern any time I have paid too much money for poultry they are 10 times more likely to end up as foxys din dins as the home bred mongerls that are running around.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Vern View Post
    Get gun licence, buy shot gun, lie in wait shoot Reynard,,,,,, he (Reynard) doesn't care if its a Rhode Island Red, a buff Orpington,,, it's just dinner and if its making a noise it's a gonna....
    You had better get a gun licence before the next election, if Labour get in the fee is going up to 200, because as we all know only toffs go shooting.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wee Dram View Post
    I think you are wrong there Vern any time I have paid too much money for poultry they are 10 times more likely to end up as foxys din dins as the home bred mongerls that are running around.
    Hahaha that's the only two chicken names I know ,,,unless you count fog horn leg horn,,,,,,, but your right they all got dinner wrote on them as far as foxy is concerned
    Big Vern..... Stay low Move faster

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    Re: The killing fields?

    I was interested to find out how they arrived at the figure of 43 million animals. Unsurprisingly, 39 million are poultry, mostly chickens, but the figure still seems high.

    The full report can be found here:http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/p...ountedDead.pdf

    This is how they arrived at the figure of 43 million:

    This report catalogues a great many fatal catastrophes in

    which farmed animals were the victims, yet their deaths
    received barely any official recognition. We estimate that
    more than 43 million animals die each year before they
    can be slaughtered a figure arrived at by collating
    annual slaughter data published by Defra, together with
    pre-slaughter mortality percentages found in industry
    journals, and media accounts of deaths caused by fire,
    floods and other such events.

    So, basically it's what they reckon, the report has pages of emotive stuff about animals suffering in road accidents and fire and floods. all of which are usually accidents outwith the control of the farmer, and there's the usual stuff about neglect cases. whilst there's never any excuse for neglect, IME the real cruelty cases tend to involve those types who aren't really proper full time farmers, but are more idiots with a few poor livestock around them types.

    There's no real methodology to this report, it's just a figure they've plucked out of thin air attached to screeds of emotive propaganda. I'd be interested to know though how many of the residents of hillside animal sanctuary have died from illness or accident during the last 12 months, only i'd be surprised if even they can manage to keep livestock without getting deadstock at some point.
    Last edited by matbrojoe; 30-11-14 at 06:12 PM.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Just had a look at Chris Williamson website.
    Just shows what rural people are up against, he probably watches too many spring watches and Brian May things, out of touch with nature and the cruelty there is.
    I watched that Ben bloke in Alaska the other night, a good programme but his grasp of the natural worlds was hopeless.
    I suppose he would never have his programme broadcast otherwise.

    Jack Caley

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    Re: The killing fields?

    might not be a bad thing....i'd do it

    two stories....a flying flock owner nearly coming to blows with someone he met claiming he was a 'sheep farmer'...he'd just turned out 400 ewes+lambs (may) on some rented grazing and claimed he'd 'let nature take its course and not go near them 'til sept'

    fallen stock collector told friend of a friend about some 'very large' pig producers loosing 18%.....keeping the pigs constantly on drugs until the last moment withdrawl wise and hoping they'd keep alive until slaughter

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    Re: The killing fields?

    With the exception of wrong sex day-old chicks these deaths hardly seem intentional.
    Perhaps they could complain about this instead.
    (caution - graphic + disturbing link )
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...du-ritual.html

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    Re: The killing fields?

    So that is 4.3% don't make it. I'd be interested to see what percentage of the human population in the uk/Europe/3rd world etc make it till 18/adulthood!? I reckon it won't be that different, maybe higher in the 3rd world case. But I don't know any hard facts. Anyone got any links?

    As ever, the fact that humans are chopping each other up with machetes over any excuse/nothing, all over the world, means I think we are doing ok on the animal front. That is no excuse for poor animal welfare though!

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    With the exception of wrong sex day-old chicks these deaths hardly seem intentional.
    Perhaps they could complain about this instead.
    (caution - graphic + disturbing link )
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...du-ritual.html
    That's an interesting point re.chicks. For every laying hen there is a cockerel who is culled on day 1. I expect with some clever temperature controls, the big hatcheries may have been able to swing hatching in favour of hens but I doubt if they would share it if they had. So that must be a massive part of the number. I believe broilers have a fairly high mortality by all standards but the cull of laying cockerels must be 90% of the poultry figure I would guess. It's akin to shooting black and white bull calves and not very palatable although to be fair, a lot of those chicks go to zoos etc. for snake food.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    That's an interesting point re.chicks. For every laying hen there is a cockerel who is culled on day 1. I expect with some clever temperature controls, the big hatcheries may have been able to swing hatching in favour of hens but I doubt if they would share it if they had. So that must be a massive part of the number. I believe broilers have a fairly high mortality by all standards but the cull of laying cockerels must be 90% of the poultry figure I would guess. It's akin to shooting black and white bull calves and not very palatable although to be fair, a lot of those chicks go to zoos etc. for snake food.
    I'm not sure if it is, they're working on the stated mortality rates for particular rearing methods/ species and extrapolating the number by deducting this percentage from the overall number slaughtered each year, so they may not be taking animals culled at birth into account, it's not like they've actually thought this through or anything.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Farming is death, shit and sex as my grandad used to say. I feel there is a lack of knowledge about how food is produced in the UK but I'm not sure who's fault that is. Most guardian readers would have been delighted see my rare breed leghorn hens skipping about in the grass this year. Took me all year to raise them in my uber welfare outdoor system but then one night Mr fox got in and killed all but one. One was still in the nest box with her head chewed off. They hadn't even layed an egg. What am I supposed to do next? Put up a better fence? A wall? A roof? I bet most of them have no hesitation in buying a chicken or bacon sarnie with no idea where the meat came from. But when they buy their joint for sunday roast, it has to be the best.
    And yet you wonder why people who are serious about producing eggs as their income would actually want to control what happens to the birds a bit better than that happy go lucky approach?

    Intensive systems were developed so that risks could be controlled, which is why well run intensive systems deliver just as good a welfare outcome as your headless hen system, but at a level of cost that is commercially viable.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    For six months of the year, poultry of all descriptions are far better off inside on deep litter.

    At least that's what I would think if I were a hen.

    And the link that 4wd put up about the ritual slaughter of buffalo is just about the most sickening, useless and barbaric
    way of appeasing a God that I have ever seen. What can be done about stupid folk like that?

    Have they never sung ''All things bright and beautiful''?

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    And yet you wonder why people who are serious about producing eggs as their income would actually want to control what happens to the birds a bit better than that happy go lucky approach?

    Intensive systems were developed so that risks could be controlled, which is why well run intensive systems deliver just as good a welfare outcome as your headless hen system, but at a level of cost that is commercially viable.
    I guess that's a decision we all make and I respect your opinion. I know I can keep the fox out with better fencing so I'll stick where I am at the moment and just try to improve the field boundary. I accept that there may be something in keeping poultry indoors in really harsh weather as all they do is stand under a shelter all day anyway. So I may, in future look to compromise on that somehow. It's a matter of working out how to stop them standing out in a 4 day January rain storm like drowned rats but not preventing them from the deep joy they seem to get from kicking around in the leaf litter on sunny winter morning. Not to mention all the free grub they must be finding in there. I don't have an answer as yet. I'm starting to wonder if they would be better off in the woods in winter like in a pheasant release pen or something. But then there are a lot of random elements there with trees and branches falling on the fences etc.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    I guess that's a decision we all make and I respect your opinion. I know I can keep the fox out with better fencing so I'll stick where I am at the moment and just try to improve the field boundary. I accept that there may be something in keeping poultry indoors in really harsh weather as all they do is stand under a shelter all day anyway. So I may, in future look to compromise on that somehow. It's a matter of working out how to stop them standing out in a 4 day January rain storm like drowned rats but not preventing them from the deep joy they seem to get from kicking around in the leaf litter on sunny winter morning. Not to mention all the free grub they must be finding in there. I don't have an answer as yet. I'm starting to wonder if they would be better off in the woods in winter like in a pheasant release pen or something. But then there are a lot of random elements there with trees and branches falling on the fences etc.
    Poly tunnels are by far the best way to keep hens inside during the winter months. when my other half was running the market garden they used to rotate the hens round three tunnels, so the one being rested go cleaned up and fertilized by the hens. It's ideal as they get natural light and dry soil to dust bath in, much healthier environment for them than deep litter.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    Poly tunnels are by far the best way to keep hens inside during the winter months. when my other half was running the market garden they used to rotate the hens round three tunnels, so the one being rested go cleaned up and fertilized by the hens. It's ideal as they get natural light and dry soil to dust bath in, much healthier environment for them than deep litter.
    Yes, I have considered that. Most of our ground is steep so I've been looking at building steps or digging them out for tunnels. Would still need protecting I suppose in some way. Out of interest how many hens in what size tunnel and for how long roughly?

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    Re: The killing fields?

    I am not sure of the environmental effects of putting livestock into woodland, regardless of the type of livestock or the type of woodland. The EA certainly did have a lot of guidance on out-wintering cattle in woodland. The pictures in the literature I saw were not complimentary of the practice- basically, left long enough the animals cause a mire as there is little natural cover at soil level, and in time they basically cause the trees to uproot themselves.

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    With the exception of wrong sex day-old chicks these deaths hardly seem intentional.
    Perhaps they could complain about this instead.
    (caution - graphic + disturbing link )
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...du-ritual.html
    I can't make out whether the meat gets eaten, article says the skins are used and heads buried.

    B.Slicker, leaving the gods bit aside - is it worse than sending thousands of sheep thousands of miles to the Middle East for halal slaughter?

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    Re: The killing fields?

    As an aside, someone mentioned sexing hens well anyway I have been sexing all the eggs all summer using same method as i use on cows, horses and local women and self, just a ring on a piece of string or a leadrope for bigger ones, I get 100% success and means no cockerals

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofteress View Post
    As an aside, someone mentioned sexing hens well anyway I have been sexing all the eggs all summer using same method as i use on cows, horses and local women and self, just a ring on a piece of string or a leadrope for bigger ones, I get 100% success and means no cockerals
    At the risk of taking the bait, really? What does the ring do in each case and when do you do the test? I'm one of those who can find underground pipes and drains with a couple bent coat hangers so maybe I can use the force on eggs too?

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    At the risk of taking the bait, really? What does the ring do in each case and when do you do the test? I'm one of those who can find underground pipes and drains with a couple bent coat hangers so maybe I can use the force on eggs too?
    it goes round and round for female and swings back and forward for male
    check it does it accurately for you by trying it over male and female anything
    I am always right with it for calves and eggs and foals, babies etc
    Its something to do with the magnetism no idea how it works just know its dead accurate and if it stays still no calve or unfertile egg
    I have done it within a week on pregnant things and a few day's after the eggs are fertilised
    If I had a 1 for everyone ive done over the years and had right Id be rich now

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    Re: The killing fields?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofteress View Post
    it goes round and round for female and swings back and forward for male
    check it does it accurately for you by trying it over male and female anything
    I am always right with it for calves and eggs and foals, babies etc
    Its something to do with the magnetism no idea how it works just know its dead accurate and if it stays still no calve or unfertile egg
    I have done it within a week on pregnant things and a few day's after the eggs are fertilised
    If I had a 1 for everyone ive done over the years and had right Id be rich now
    OK, will give it a go.

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