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Thread: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

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    Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    As above I have considered a charolais but have thought about a beltex. Lambs are mainly texels out of mules. pros and cons please lads & lasses

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    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    There are different types of Charolais ,but the wedge shaped shoulder type will be easier to lamb than others & any Beltex .
    Its a question of when you are expecting to finish your lambs , how late in the season do you want to go, unless you will sell store .
    There is undoubtedly a premium for Well finished Beltex types , but for how long will this be , as there is not a great deal of difference in the killing out ratio , there will be even more Beltex types on the market next year given the Beltex Ram trade this year the difference in price per kilo might narrow who knows , I am sure they will still make more but with less daily live weight gain is there going to be enough of a premium to justify .

    Another option might be the Chamoise similar to a Beltex but longer with narrow shoulders.,easier to lamb lively at birth but not fast growers just like the Beltex.
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Thanks skoda you are always helpful and answer
    I have no worries about lambs finishing later as prices are usually better later anyhow and I have a dairy farm to graze through winter
    I intend weaning there lambs at 10 weeks and hopefully allowing them some growing time as well

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    Senior Member wr.'s Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    We used a charolais on our crossbred ewe lambs last year and were very pleased. Very little troubles and strong, lively lambs.
    Don't itch for something if you're not prepared to scratch for it.

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    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    I'm in a similar position to you borntohunt but have bitten the bullet and have bought a charollais ram to put to ewe lambs. Hopefully will lamb easy and produce a commercial lamb.

  6. #6

    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by grassmanman View Post
    I'm in a similar position to you borntohunt but have bitten the bullet and have bought a charollais ram to put to ewe lambs. Hopefully will lamb easy and produce a commercial lamb.
    I have a pure charolais tup lamb well grown but its
    a bit wooly which might not be a bad thing as I am at 1000ft. He can go with any empties at scanning time

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    How would a Zwartbles ram lamb be for ewe lambs? Bought one today on impulse Plenty of Ch lambs there too, but I was worried about wool cover, not always a friendly part of the world here weatherwise in Spring.

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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Zwartbles are a bit like the holstein of the sheep world. Great milkers but poor confirmation. If you cross them to something like a texel to give them some shape you get a great ewe to then go again with the texel ram. Problem is the black wool is worth faff all.

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Used to wool being worth F all, have blackface hill sheep! Gonna try him out this year anyway, might get a few different ewe lambs next year, bit of messing.

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    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Zwartball`s are bracketed as continental BFL without the Booney Heed` .

    Next year there will be a deluge of Beltex & Beltex X ram lambs on the ground , apparently there has been a considerable number of Lleyn ewes being bought because they are Media Visna accredited ,for the use as embryo doner recipients. Also there are a number Texel & Charolais ewes within established flocks being tupped by the little Bull dogs.
    Interesting times .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Senior Member andybk's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalway View Post
    How would a Zwartbles ram lamb be for ewe lambs? Bought one today on impulse Plenty of Ch lambs there too, but I was worried about wool cover, not always a friendly part of the world here weatherwise in Spring.
    zwartbles is a female producer much like the bfl as mentioned above , great milkers (and crosses) good mothers easy lambing , very hardy and fast growing , but best used with good conf rams ,
    On ewe lambs get the lambs away off the mother unless keeping ,
    on the op charollais , is improved french southdown x leicester in easy terms , find a short legged tight coated ram with narrow shoulders and lighter bone (southdown side ) and he will do fine ,

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by andybk View Post
    zwartbles is a female producer much like the bfl as mentioned above , great milkers (and crosses) good mothers easy lambing , very hardy and fast growing , but best used with good conf rams ,
    On ewe lambs get the lambs away off the mother unless keeping ,
    on the op charollais , is improved french southdown x leicester in easy terms , find a short legged tight coated ram with narrow shoulders and lighter bone (southdown side ) and he will do fine ,
    Yup, I get the distinct feeling I'm doing this ass backwards, but he was an impulse purchase on the spur of the moment. He'll go onto a few cheviox x blackface ewe lambs, and blackface ewe lambs, more an experiment in lambing ewe lambs than anything else.

    Next year I'd like to get some Z ewes or ewe lambs. I do like the idea of a Char on them. Will see what comes out of this ram lamb, and how he develops. I do plan to wean the lambs early.

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    Senior Member andybk's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalway View Post
    Yup, I get the distinct feeling I'm doing this ass backwards, but he was an impulse purchase on the spur of the moment. He'll go onto a few cheviox x blackface ewe lambs, and blackface ewe lambs, more an experiment in lambing ewe lambs than anything else.

    Next year I'd like to get some Z ewes or ewe lambs. I do like the idea of a Char on them. Will see what comes out of this ram lamb, and how he develops. I do plan to wean the lambs early.
    zwartbles society is going in different directions , northern boys , like the holstein type tall and long , the south friesian type (bit smaller but easier fleshed) , definitely keep some ewe lambs they always come all black first cross , just make sure you put a naturally blocky ram on them , texel , beltex , smaller charollais even southdown ,they have enough size and need filling out , absolutely cracking lambs away quick , that will survive well outside , dont be put off by the lambs you get this year , the offspring will milk like hell

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by andybk View Post
    zwartbles society is going in different directions , northern boys , like the holstein type tall and long , the south friesian type (bit smaller but easier fleshed) , definitely keep some ewe lambs they always come all black first cross , just make sure you put a naturally blocky ram on them , texel , beltex , smaller charollais even southdown ,they have enough size and need filling out , absolutely cracking lambs away quick , that will survive well outside , dont be put off by the lambs you get this year , the offspring will milk like hell
    Thanks Andy, I know you know your stuff. I'd be inclined to agree with the Southerners, I got that tip a couple of years ago to go (without wanting to cause war ) for the more "Texel" looking Z's.

    Will be interesting to see what happens anyway.

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    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by borntohunt View Post
    As above I have considered a charolais but have thought about a beltex. Lambs are mainly texels out of mules. pros and cons please lads & lasses
    A zwarble would be a bit of a disaster. It has no commercial merit as a sire either for slaughter lambs or for producing ewe-lambs fit
    for keeping for breeding.

    A Bluefaced Leicester (BFL) would be preferable, but a Lleyn would be cheaper to buy and its lambs would be slightly better
    than a BFL cross for feeding or for breeding.

    But if you have any local Shetland breeders (and it is possibly the most widespread breed in the UK) you could do worse than us a Shetland tup.
    Otherwise, just use a Beltex and hope for the best at lambing time. The other major problems with the Beltex is that their buying price per month or per live lamb
    produced over their lifetime is very high - if they don't die of throat abscess or pneumonia, they will just die anyway.

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    Senior Member ladycrofter's Avatar
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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    I use Beltex on Shetland ewes with no problems, but not such good luck with Beltex on BeltexXShetland ewes, in spite of them being larger, I think the pelivis is smaller than the pure Shetland. So I wouldn't be too keen to use a Beltex on anything Texel-like.

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    Re: Next question which breed tup for gimmer lambs

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    A zwarble would be a bit of a disaster. It has no commercial merit as a sire either for slaughter lambs or for producing ewe-lambs fit
    for keeping for breeding.

    A Bluefaced Leicester (BFL) would be preferable, but a Lleyn would be cheaper to buy and its lambs would be slightly better
    than a BFL cross for feeding or for breeding.

    But if you have any local Shetland breeders (and it is possibly the most widespread breed in the UK) you could do worse than us a Shetland tup.
    Otherwise, just use a Beltex and hope for the best at lambing time. The other major problems with the Beltex is that their buying price per month or per live lamb
    produced over their lifetime is very high - if they don't die of throat abscess or pneumonia, they will just die anyway.
    I use Shetland rams on all my ewe lambs.

    I know the lambs won`t be worth as much, but I look at it as the ewe lamb has a nice easy birth with little stress and mothers well because of this then her next lambing as a shearling to a continental will mean stronger mothering ability and hopefully less ewes dumping lambs and running off.

    Been doing this now for 4 years and lamb between 200-300 lambs and only had to touch any for the odd breach or backwards birth. The lambs are small at birth, nearly rat size, but god do they get up and go. I do use the thicker set Shetlands.

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