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Thread: Compliance?

  1. #1
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    Compliance?

    So it seems that there are some genuine active farmers who have been deemed ineligible for the new SFP/BFP scheme, just wondering, could they then for example, go out and spread slurry whenever they took the notion, spread as much artificial as they wanted, reseed as and when they want, etc, etc.

    If you're no longer an "active farmer", presumably you can't be shackled by the need to "comply", and if you don't need to "comply" would the advantages actually out-weigh the disadvantages?

    Anybody else wonder how the department are going to cope with anyone who no longer has the SFP gun being held to their head?

    Oh, and before anyone starts wondering, it's not a position I'm in but as someone who struggles increasingly with the thought that I'm selling my farming soul for an annual cheque, it's an intriguing thought.

  2. #2
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Compliance?

    The one restriction I can think of is that anyone in a Nitrate Vulnerable Zone might have to abide by any legal requirements.

    But Government officials would have no option but to take court action, and it is extremely
    difficult and expensive to do that. And they might be scared that they would have to prove the need for a particular
    NVZ anyway. Many of the boundaries might have been drawn at random by someone doodling with a pencil on a Friday afternoon.

  3. #3
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    Lightbulb Re: Compliance?

    Nowt from Nowt is NOWT.

    Plenty farming and not claiming sfp.

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    Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Nowt from Nowt is NOWT.

    Plenty farming and not claiming sfp.
    Yep, and they still have to comply with environmental law etc, the SFP isn't the only tool which controls our industry. It would remove things like the 3 crop rule and a lot of other bits though for sure.
    Stay in Northamptonshire - meadowviewcottages.co.uk

  5. #5
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    Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Plenty farming and not claiming sfp.
    Not over here! Plenty the other way, which our ever industrious officials are currently supposed to be dealing with, and naturally making a total balls of it.

    Just got me thinking though, while the department are no doubt taking typically great joy and diligence in declassifying people as "active" farmers and removing them from the system, have they actually considered how they'll then keep their thumb on them afterwards (which they also take great joy and diligence in!).

  6. #6
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    Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by foxbox View Post
    Yep, and they still have to comply with environmental law etc, the SFP isn't the only tool which controls our industry. It would remove things like the 3 crop rule and a lot of other bits though for sure.


    Like the way they keep an eye on travellers and migrants is it ????

  7. #7
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    Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Like the way they keep an eye on travellers and migrants is it ????
    They're under the radar though (no names and no address). Farmers running a business have a name and fixed address so are easy prey (whether claiming SFP or not) you can't run and you can't hide without losing everything.

  8. #8
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    Re: Compliance?

    Without the SFP, there is no cross compliance or any of that carp. No 3 crop rule, no nothing.

    All you need to do is keep slurry and manure out of watercourses, abide by their buffer zones and follow the usual pesticide regulations under the food and environmental protection act as well as HSE/COSHH guidelines, which everyone is doing anyway.

    Coming back to the reseeding thing. There is still a lot of confusion about what can and cannot be reseeded. This kind of question comes up a lot in the course of conversations.

    Unless you are a serious hill farmer, or have land under an SSSI or with some scheduled monument under it or something, you will likely be able to reseed nearly any patch of agricultural land you want. Even if ground has 'not been ploughed up for 20 years', that does not mean you cannot reseed it.

    The rules exist to protect land that is basically 'unimproved' or 'semi-natural' and as such will play host to rare orchids or some such stuff. Unimproved pasture is land which has never seen a chain harrow, or muck, or nitrogen or grassland herbicides. As such, most of the farmers I know or do work for, basically have very little of land that qualifies as this, and if they did, it is some old water meadow that is flooded for 9 months of the year, a field so steep only Grandad on a dualled up grey Fergie dared drive on it, or an overgrown apple orchard that you wouldn't want to meddle with anyway for whatever reason.

    As such, providing you are keeping records of these kinds of operations being carried out (which you should be under cross compliance ) you have all the evidence you need to counter any jobsworth who turns up saying you cannot plough up X or Y field. And if you want to get really keen, you can get your friendly agronomist to conduct an environmental impact assessment, where they walk the ground beforehand, write down what species are present (in my scenario, it's normally weed grasses, buttercup and the like of zero ecological value) and then write this lot down in a formal manner for you ready for Natural England to chew on, who will then have little ammunition to use because a ropey bit of meadow full of buttercup is not a species rich habitat or any of that lark.

    These muppets are civil servants first and foremost, and they do not exist to determine how farmers may or may not use their own land or what activities can be carried out in the course of agricultural use.

  9. #9
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    Re: Compliance?

    What he said. +1

  10. #10
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    Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    So it seems that there are some genuine active farmers who have been deemed ineligible for the new SFP/BFP scheme, just wondering, could they then for example, go out and spread slurry whenever they took the notion, spread as much artificial as they wanted, reseed as and when they want, etc, etc.

    If you're no longer an "active farmer", presumably you can't be shackled by the need to "comply", and if you don't need to "comply" would the advantages actually out-weigh the disadvantages?

    Anybody else wonder how the department are going to cope with anyone who no longer has the SFP gun being held to their head?

    Oh, and before anyone starts wondering, it's not a position I'm in but as someone who struggles increasingly with the thought that I'm selling my farming soul for an annual cheque, it's an intriguing thought.
    Looks Like i am now out it grant wise, so may as well get the speader out now.

  11. #11
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    Question Re: Compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Without the SFP, there is no cross compliance or any of that carp. No 3 crop rule, no nothing.

    All you need to do is keep slurry and manure out of watercourses, abide by their buffer zones and follow the usual pesticide regulations under the food and environmental protection act as well as HSE/COSHH guidelines, which everyone is doing anyway.

    Coming back to the reseeding thing. There is still a lot of confusion about what can and cannot be reseeded. This kind of question comes up a lot in the course of conversations.

    Unless you are a serious hill farmer, or have land under an SSSI or with some scheduled monument under it or something, you will likely be able to reseed nearly any patch of agricultural land you want. Even if ground has 'not been ploughed up for 20 years', that does not mean you cannot reseed it.

    The rules exist to protect land that is basically 'unimproved' or 'semi-natural' and as such will play host to rare orchids or some such stuff. Unimproved pasture is land which has never seen a chain harrow, or muck, or nitrogen or grassland herbicides. As such, most of the farmers I know or do work for, basically have very little of land that qualifies as this, and if they did, it is some old water meadow that is flooded for 9 months of the year, a field so steep only Grandad on a dualled up grey Fergie dared drive on it, or an overgrown apple orchard that you wouldn't want to meddle with anyway for whatever reason.

    As such, providing you are keeping records of these kinds of operations being carried out (which you should be under cross compliance ) you have all the evidence you need to counter any jobsworth who turns up saying you cannot plough up X or Y field. And if you want to get really keen, you can get your friendly agronomist to conduct an environmental impact assessment, where they walk the ground beforehand, write down what species are present (in my scenario, it's normally weed grasses, buttercup and the like of zero ecological value) and then write this lot down in a formal manner for you ready for Natural England to chew on, who will then have little ammunition to use because a ropey bit of meadow full of buttercup is not a species rich habitat or any of that lark.

    These muppets are civil servants first and foremost, and they do not exist to determine how farmers may or may not use their own land or what activities can be carried out in the course of agricultural use.


    we are right + 1

    Too many getting away with so many things under the sfp and so called compliance umbrella anyhow that makes a mockery of law abiding ordinary non claimant farmers/landowner anyhow ???

  12. #12
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    Re: Compliance?

    Why does this now seem to be such a lottery? Why are regular farmers not being accepted, or having doubts as to wheher or not they will be accepted? Is it like the old grants system - the bigger your business, the more impact your schemes are deemed to have, therefore the more likely you are to be funded? Or what?

    It doesn't affect me as I don't have enough land to be eligible under the new rules and I wasn't in at the right time - so wasn't in - under the old, but to an onlooker it all seems a bit hittymissy.

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