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Thread: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Listened to the wireless the other day re: the topic of continued agricultural subsidy post Brexit.
    A speaker suggested that support should be limited beyond a certain figure with the bulk of the monies targeted towards smaller 'family' farms. In other words capped at a maximum payment per business.
    Thought it was one of the more sensible suggestions.
    Views from the great and good?

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    The small farmer should like it, but the "big boys" who wine and dine and make large corporate donations to the politicians probably won't. If the small farmer wants it that way, they have to get organized and create a publicity campaign which would include press "releases" so the press have the FACTS that they can print.

    also be prepared to stage demonstrations - tractor convoys to regional political offices?

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Interesting concept.....Payments will continue!

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Listened to the wireless the other day re: the topic of continued agricultural subsidy post Brexit.
    A speaker suggested that support should be limited beyond a certain figure with the bulk of the monies targeted towards smaller 'family' farms. In other words capped at a maximum payment per business.
    Thought it was one of the more sensible suggestions.
    Views from the great and good?
    Possibly you do not remember that we have been all through this before!
    The biggest opposition came from the NFU!
    Do not forget at the time the NFU was dominated by large arable farmers!
    As members of an organisation called Farmers Third world Network we had support from the shadow Min of Ag.He was replaced and forgotten when Labour got in to power.
    I do not hold out much hope for the proposition.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Listened to the wireless the other day re: the topic of continued agricultural subsidy post Brexit.
    A speaker suggested that support should be limited beyond a certain figure with the bulk of the monies targeted towards smaller 'family' farms. In other words capped at a maximum payment per business.
    Thought it was one of the more sensible suggestions.
    Views from the great and good?
    Bring it on, let's have 'active farmer' status tightened up whilst we're at it too.

    Of course, once you put new rules in place, the clever boys will put their thinking caps on and start to invent ways to get around it, If the cap is 250 acres, how many 500 acre farms will be split into two separate businesses? one belonging to the wife/ son/ uncle tom cobbly that contracts all services from the husband's?

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    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    Bring it on, let's have 'active farmer' status tightened up whilst we're at it too.

    Of course, once you put new rules in place, the clever boys will put their thinking caps on and start to invent ways to get around it, If the cap is 250 acres, how many 500 acre farms will be split into two separate businesses? one belonging to the wife/ son/ uncle tom cobbly that contracts all services from the husband's?
    There is obviously a case for capping subsidy payments, but account must be taken of the fact that bigger farms
    employ staff.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    You can't do it by acreage or headage, I would just limit the size of claims to 100K or something.

    Similarly, any claims below 10K I would just cease paying it, make the system a lot less unwieldy.

    Active farmer rules should definitely be much tighter, too. No crops or no animals= no payment, quite simple.

    Return to area aid and headage payments, too, with no penalties or premiums for exotic crops or the usual nonsense, just a flat payment equal across all crops etc.

    All farms above 500 acres in size to adopt mandatory buffer zones around field edges, mandatory 6m buffer strips alongside watercourses etc.

    Grants for drainage, capital works and slurry stores etc again.

    ELS/HLS - do away with the nonsense. Pointless.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    You can't do it by acreage or headage, I would just limit the size of claims to 100K or something. Maybe

    Similarly, any claims below 10K I would just cease paying it, make the system a lot less unwieldy. Definitely disagree with that !

    Active farmer rules should definitely be much tighter, too. No crops or no animals= no payment, quite simple. Absolutely 100% with you on that, get rid of the horseyculture scroungers.

    Return to area aid and headage payments, too, with no penalties or premiums for exotic crops or the usual nonsense, just a flat payment equal across all crops etc. Yes.

    All farms above 500 acres in size to adopt mandatory buffer zones around field edges, mandatory 6m buffer strips alongside watercourses etc. Why ?

    Grants for drainage, capital works and slurry stores etc again. Not sure about that.

    ELS/HLS - do away with the nonsense. Pointless. Couldn't agree more but you will have the bearded, open toe sandal, bat counting, great crested newt people howling at you for that.
    My take on it anyway.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Just to add my pennys worth. How about scrapping subsidies in the form of liquid finance and instead contributing the equivalent value in infrastructure? For the me the focus on money is the wrong way to go. Lets be honest for a lot of us the subsidy goes towards paying off the overdraft (the bank), paying rent (the landlord), paying for finance (the machinery dealer) so are we really getting the value in that money/subsidy? It comes in one door and goes out the other very quickly.

    So how about using that money to directly finance infrastructure like drainage, fencing, new buildings for livestock or grain storage. even concreting yards. And its done in accordance with the size of the individual farm relative to the subsidy they would get. I think it would really help the small and medium size farms improve there business. It would also create jobs and help contracting businesses to grow.

    Just an idea but I really think infrastructure is the key to a successful farm business in the long term, not cash.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    There is obviously a case for capping subsidy payments, but account must be taken of the fact that bigger farms
    employ staff.
    That is not correct. In my short rein I have lost 3 out of 6 immediate neighbours, I took over one myself and the others also amalgamated into larger operations rather than being sold or transferred as going concerns in their own right. Not one of the work force of the original "smaller" farm structure has been retained.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by rob230580 View Post
    Just to add my pennys worth. How about scrapping subsidies in the form of liquid finance and instead contributing the equivalent value in infrastructure? For the me the focus on money is the wrong way to go. Lets be honest for a lot of us the subsidy goes towards paying off the overdraft (the bank), paying rent (the landlord), paying for finance (the machinery dealer) so are we really getting the value in that money/subsidy? It comes in one door and goes out the other very quickly.

    So how about using that money to directly finance infrastructure like drainage, fencing, new buildings for livestock or grain storage. even concreting yards. And its done in accordance with the size of the individual farm relative to the subsidy they would get. I think it would really help the small and medium size farms improve there business. It would also create jobs and help contracting businesses to grow.

    Just an idea but I really think infrastructure is the key to a successful farm business in the long term, not cash.
    I have to agree in principle ,it would at a stroke prove what an active farmer is .In my view machinery ,tools & various novel and innovative equipment should also be considered although the downside being as so much kit is now imported Politics will inevitably stop this from happening .The other downside would be the inevitable bureaucracy that would follow , a rule of thumb for capital grant schemes is for every spent 50p goes to administration costs & consultants while the other 50p finally gets to the farmer at present .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Possibly you do not remember that we have been all through this before!
    The biggest opposition came from the NFU!
    Do not forget at the time the NFU was dominated by large arable farmers!
    As members of an organisation called Farmers Third world Network we had support from the shadow Min of Ag.He was replaced and forgotten when Labour got in to power.
    I do not hold out much hope for the proposition.
    Jack Caley
    In the last EU review of CAP the Commission did suggest an upper limit on payments but opposed by UK as not being in our national interest. However in Brexit debate George Eustice said payments to family farms would continue so is back on the agenda.

    The NFU is consulting with members so do make your voice heard, if you can't get to any of meetings it can be done on their website here (capping isn't specifically mentioned but you can write it in at section 8)

    It would be good to have an old Farmers Third World Network reunion at Stoneleigh. That former shadow MAFF minister was farmer's son Gavin Strang who was replaced by the less farmer friendly Jack Cunningham.
    Last edited by tom; 20-08-16 at 09:46 AM.

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    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post

    It would be good to have an old Farmers Third World Network reunion at Stoneleigh. That former shadow MAFF minister was farmer's son Gavin Strang who was replaced by the less farmer friendly Jack Cunningham (who I think was later jailed for fiddling his expenses).
    It was Elliot Morley .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Cool Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    In the last EU review of CAP the Commission did suggest an upper limit on payments but opposed by UK as not being in our national interest. However in Brexit debate George Eustice said payments to family farms would continue so is back on the agenda.

    The NFU is consulting with members so do make your voice heard, if you can't get to any of meetings it can be done on their website here (capping isn't specifically mentioned but you can write it in at section 8)

    It would be good to have an old Farmers Third World Network reunion at Stoneleigh. That former shadow MAFF minister was farmer's son Gavin Strang who was replaced by the less farmer friendly Jack Cunningham (who I think was later jailed for fiddling his expenses).
    Hello Tom,
    They were good days at FTWN, I found them very stimulating, especially from some whose views were totally opposite to mine,with one exception, one who supported the cap who one might not expect was Lady Bell who farmed thousands of acres

    I am only in touch with one member now in Cleveland who is very successful.
    Good times,

    Jack CALEY

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    It was Elliot Morley .
    quite right I should have checked first, Jack Cunningham was only suspended accused of accepting cash for questions and later reinstated).

    It was Cunningham (aka Jack Boots) who followd Gavin to be first Minister of Agriculture in Tony Blair's government. I'm told when he attending his first NFU conference as Minister he swept into the hall with an entourage of minders who took over the entire front row. At the time Tony Pexton had been favourite to become next NFU President but on seeing Cunningham's entrance which looked like a military takeover one member commented "that bloke looks like a right b*stard, I think we are going to need a bigger b*stard" and voted for Ben Gill instead.

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    Re: CAPPING AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDY SUPPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Hello Tom,
    They were good days at FTWN, I found them very stimulating, especially from some whose views were totally opposite to mine,with one exception, one who supported the cap who one might not expect was Lady Bell who farmed thousands of acres

    I am only in touch with one member now in Cleveland who is very successful.
    Good times,

    Jack CALEY
    ... Andy Welford?

    I used to enjoy doing the washing up with Lady Bell (and I don't think either of us did it very often at home)

    You might remember Liz Bowles who is now Head of Farming at the Soil Association.
    https://www.soilassociation.org/staff-bios/liz-bowles/

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