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Thread: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

  1. #1
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    Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Recommendations please for the best product for the job.

    Not a huge area so cost not an issue.

    Many thanks.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Recommendations please for the best product for the job.

    Not a huge area so cost not an issue.

    Many thanks.
    You have PM.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Thank you sir.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Forefront T

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    PM sent.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    Forefront T
    Not licenced for spot spraying and only licenced for grazing ground, not horses or cutting ground either.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulscots View Post
    Not licenced for spot spraying and only licenced for grazing ground, not horses or cutting ground either.
    And naturally I always abide by the licensing laws.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    And naturally I always abide by the licensing laws.
    Just right too!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Would not Grazon do the trick?
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Would not Grazon do the trick?
    Jack Caley
    I've been advised that it won't be as effective against the ragwort as Forefront, and if anything they're a bigger issue than the docks.

    Against that, it would appear to be the most effective product licensed for a knapsack.

    Pulled some ragwort by hand this year and I'm really interested to see what happens next year. Conflicting advice as usual, some suggest they'll be gone, some suggest I've actually just created three or four more in place of the one I pulled. By next year I'll know for myself!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Pulling ragwort works almost completely. Wear protective gloves, and ideally wait until soil conditions
    allow the plant to be pulled easily with roots attached.

    Put the plants into a container and make a pile in a shed somewhere until they dry off and either bury or burn.

    Don't worry about this year's seedlings - they will be there next year for another and hopefully final pulling episode.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    Pulling ragwort works almost completely. Wear protective gloves, and ideally wait until soil conditions
    allow the plant to be pulled easily with roots attached.

    Put the plants into a container and make a pile in a shed somewhere until they dry off and either bury or burn.

    Don't worry about this year's seedlings - they will be there next year for another and hopefully final pulling episode.
    I find it often breaks off at ground level and can grow again multi-stemmed from the top of the root.
    It works better if soil is not dry.
    For the odd plant which is all we have here I loosen them with a knife - a spade or fork would be better.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    As it was a crop of hay coming off the field I pulled every single one of the buggers. Not a great infestation by any means but randomly dispersed so a lot of ground to cover. They pulled well as the ground is that rarest of things, seldom wet at any time of year, yet retains moisture really well so seldom dries out either. But some articles claim that they'll grow back from the tiniest root fragments, so I'm watching and waiting!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Garmin Ultra contains the same active ingredients as Forefront T albeit in different ratios and is licenced for use through a handheld applicator, it's also expensive. It's also only licenced for Amenity use, another Dow product which seems the same with different legal application is Icade.......... If they can do this for these applications why not for agricultural use under a different name? Depitox is licenced for handheld application and for controlling Ragwort and quite cheap by comparison.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulscots View Post
    Depitox is licenced for handheld application and for controlling Ragwort and quite cheap by comparison.
    We have Depitox, we use it on the golf greens as it's pretty effective against most of the stuff that they're susceptible to and at very reasonable cost as you say. Never noticed that it was indicated for Ragwort control but that's useful to know as it'll be a good option for any stragglers in the spring and with no forage restrictions.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    As it was a crop of hay coming off the field I pulled every single one of the buggers. Not a great infestation by any means but randomly dispersed so a lot of ground to cover. They pulled well as the ground is that rarest of things, seldom wet at any time of year, yet retains moisture really well, so seldom dries out either. But some articles claim that they'll grow back from the tiniest root fragments, so I'm watching and waiting!
    It may well depend on your local soil and microclimate; we have alkaline clay and less than 15" of rain per year, and ragwort doesn't come back from pulling - full stop. It may well be different with a more hospitable soil, and more rain. Wait and see.

  17. #17

    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Pull by hand to get rid initially and then the best tool to keep ragwort at bay is to graze with sheep!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durhamlad1985 View Post
    Pull by hand to get rid initially and then the best tool to keep ragwort at bay is to graze with sheep!
    Not everyone is in the situation to be able to make that system work. If you don't have sheep or want it for cutting then you need a different approach. Even if you are grazing with sheep, do you really want them eating poisonous plants? Is your mortality rate not high enough?

  19. #19

    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Not saying that is a system which works for everyone, but it does for us and no, we don't loose sheep to it, they graze it early on and we have never had a problem!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durhamlad1985 View Post
    Not saying that is a system which works for everyone, but it does for us and no, we don't loose sheep to it, they graze it early on and we have never had a problem!
    As ragwort is a cumulative poison it's possible that you sell your stock before the liver packs in.

    On a slightly different angle,my mother kept bees and one year the ragwort flowered (my neighbour grew it as a second crop!) before we moved the bees up onto the heather,we ended up throwing away all the honey made before we moved them because it both smelled and tasted of Ragwort.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    As ragwort is a cumulative poison it's possible that you sell your stock before the liver packs in.

    On a slightly different angle,my mother kept bees and one year the ragwort flowered (my neighbour grew it as a second crop!) before we moved the bees up onto the heather,we ended up throwing away all the honey made before we moved them because it both smelled and tasted of Ragwort.
    Ragwort is a biennial. It grows vegetatively the first year and flowers and then dies (of boredom) in the second year.

    So if there is a population of ragwort, up to half of them will be in their second year and flowering. And if you properly pull a flowering plant, it
    will almost certainly not regrow.

    There is myth about sheep and ragwort. If sheep graze a pasture every or most years, they will graze any minor young ragwort and the population of ragwort, and thus
    ingestion by sheep, will be very low. So the sheep are not materially affected.
    But if you sell the sheep because you are too lazy to look after them, and keep cattle instead, the ragwort will increase exponentially and be an eyesore
    and a danger to all stock, even to sheep if you are daft enough to restock.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Probably should have mentioned that the ground has been operating on a low "N" basis for a couple of years now and there seems to be evidence from trials that nitrogen helps hold it back. So anyone farming reasonably intensively and with little or no ragwort, as I had, could have more potential bother with it lurking in the ground than maybe they realise. So how much of it is recent, and how much historic is hard to know. My other issues are that producing hay for sale requires zero ragwort, so I'm being very tight on it's presence, and because the hay making has been so late this past two years, they've had time to flower and make their presence very obvious so you see them all!

    I've read about the two year thing but plainly it's not that simple as inside a couple of years you'd be rid, so then you have to look at how they're re-establishing. Well for a source I only have to look across the smallest of the two rivers bordering the ground where, to quote an earlier expression, they also grow it as a second crop! However, part of my recently established wooded area extends the full length of it, so it should in future provide some protection from windblown. Probably important also to keep poaching to an absolute minimum. Cropping has also been stopped for the foreseeable future with a switch to long term (or possibly permanent!) leys so there'll be no winter stubble to catch any windblown either.

    These measures together with a combination of pulling and spraying will hopefully snuff it out before it becomes a bigger problem.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    On a slightly different angle,my mother kept bees and one year the ragwort flowered (my neighbour grew it as a second crop!) before we moved the bees up onto the heather,we ended up throwing away all the honey made before we moved them because it both smelled and tasted of Ragwort.
    Many, many, sites of so called "environmental" groups extolling the virtues of ragwort for bees and how us silly old farmers should be letting it stay instead of worrying about getting rid of it.

    Plainly then none of them have ever smelt or tasted the honey from it!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    A lot of the idealists in those 'environmental' groups have been to university and have the theory so think know it all,while 'us silly old farmers' have the practical experience and can't afford to be idealists (and wouldn't want to be anyway).

    Honey is a sugar,sugar is bad for you so it won't matter if it's tainted

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    A lot of the idealists in those 'environmental' groups have been to university and have the theory so think know it all,while 'us silly old farmers' have the practical experience and can't afford to be idealists (and wouldn't want to be anyway).

    Honey is a sugar,sugar is bad for you so it won't matter if it's tainted
    But but but honey is a GOOD sugar as it is NATURAL whereas BAD sugar is stuff grown by farmers and PROCESSED. The evidence is that honey can stand the test of time in Egyptian tombs.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    A lot of the idealists in those 'environmental' groups have been to university and have the theory so think know it all,while 'us silly old farmers' have the practical experience and can't afford to be idealists (and wouldn't want to be anyway).
    Know exactly what you mean. My daughter is studying for an honours degree in agriculture at Queens University but she's also a proper working farmer, does relief milking, feeds cattle, machinery work, whatever.

    More than once she's been told by her lecturers that as a degree student she should be "above" practical hands on work! Needless to say she's pretty unimpressed, but it does show the mentality in higher education.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Know exactly what you mean. My daughter is studying for an honours degree in agriculture at Queens University but she's also a proper working farmer, does relief milking, feeds cattle, machinery work, whatever.

    More than once she's been told by her lecturers that as a degree student she should be "above" practical hands on work! Needless to say she's pretty unimpressed, but it does show the mentality in higher education.
    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Having been a Fellow of a Cambridge college for many years (teaching Engineering) and a working smallholder, most of us entirely recognise the value of practical experience, and indeed insist on it for our students to graduate: that certainly applies to Engineering, Veterinary Medicine and Human Medicine, and a few other subjects.

    And yes, I do sometimes get sneered at by a few of my less intelligent colleagues for the fact that I regularly do odd jobs using lathes, welders, milling machines etc. when I'm not playing with my quantum mechanic's tool kit and also shovel muck, lamb ewes, cut hedges, make hay etc. There aren't many try it though, and it's quite fun tying them in intellectual knots and puncturing their silly overblown egos. They don't try it twice.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Due apologies to yourself then sir, but I take from your post that you do get the gist of where I'm coming from?

    Maybe only the truly enlightened can appreciate the virtues of both sides!

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    I am not convinced that careful pulling will not result in regrowth. I think in a dry period when flowering and pulled any root left will struggle. We went to quite a lot of trouble carefully digging rosette stage stage on a small horse paddock. The next year there were, in many cases, a ring of small plants around the depression from the digging in the preceding year. I did not think it a result of seed germination as it was on the depression periphery.
    I have had reasonable success dropping a pinch of 34.5%N on rosette stage. Burns the plant and it disappears really quickly. I don't think ragwort will ever be far away with horse grazing as it creates ideal environment. I have also noticed that we get very few plants emerging in land with quite high N use for hay.

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    Re: Spot spraying docks and ragwort.

    Well as stated earlier there are mixed messages on regrowth after pulling, so it must be condition dependent as you have to take people at their word and assume what they're telling you from their own day to day working is correct. Certainly if I had practical experience of a particular situation, I wouldn't take at all kindly to someone telling me I was wrong and it couldn't happen!

    However I have picked up a few things from this thread which I wasn't aware of before, so I'll certainly go in to next spring better prepared than this past one however this years pulling works out.

    Hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst!

    Oh, 34% CAN hasn't been available over here since sometime in the early 70's, too easy to make bombs out of!

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