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Thread: Boundary fence

  1. #1
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    Boundary fence

    I have new neighbours next to my paddock,they have removed the Lleylandii from their side of the fence,I had the fence erected because the original fence was falling down and I need a fence to keep my stock in(they reckon the fence is theirs and they can do what they like with it),posts at 6' intervals(there's between 10 and 15,haven't counted them)barbed on top then a plain then pig netting,strainers at each end, one butted up to the 8' high wall that is the rest of the boundary for my paddock,after removal of the conifers they then leveled some of their lawn to make a ball play area,I went down to inspect my fence before turning my cattle out in it to find that a)they've cut the fence and put a garden gate into my paddock and b) the leveling means that the soil has been removed from the base of 3 posts and partially from round the strainer,can anyone on here suggest what I can do without involving solicitors.
    Thanks

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    I have new neighbours next to my paddock,they have removed the Lleylandii from their side of the fence,I had the fence erected because the original fence was falling down and I need a fence to keep my stock in(they reckon the fence is theirs and they can do what they like with it),posts at 6' intervals(there's between 10 and 15,haven't counted them)barbed on top then a plain then pig netting,strainers at each end, one butted up to the 8' high wall that is the rest of the boundary for my paddock,after removal of the conifers they then leveled some of their lawn to make a ball play area,I went down to inspect my fence before turning my cattle out in it to find that a)they've cut the fence and put a garden gate into my paddock and b) the leveling means that the soil has been removed from the base of 3 posts and partially from round the strainer,can anyone on here suggest what I can do without involving solicitors.
    Thanks
    first, are the new neighbours owners of the property or renters? If the property was listed, see if you can get a copy of the listing from the agent (it might provide some clues as to their behavour)

    I would DEFINATELY call your solicitor and expect that you will be required to call a surveyor to validate the property line.

    PS, if the "garden gate" happens to be open when you let your cattle out, don't worry about the sheeet on their ball field

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Thanks for your reply,

    The new neighbours are the owners and this isn't the first run-in I've had with them,last Winter they made 3 holes along the top of their wall and put drain pipes through to discharge the rain water from their garage and outbuildings onto my paddock,they couldn't see anything wrong with that either(according to them google says it's ok to do that ) but have removed the pipes.The problems with the cattle getting out onto the ball area is that there are no gates off their property,I have a bull,they have a conservatory-I'm sure he'd have a smashing time,I'm also sure the cattle would enjoy themselves leaving their prints and calling cards but it's the fact they would be able to get onto the road that bothers me.The biggest problem is that they are 'townies in the country' and seem to look for the answer they want from google rather than discussing our shared boundaries with me(I had no problems with the previous owners).

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    Re: Boundary fence

    The first thing to do is to look at your Title Deeds. They may show who owns the boundary, they may not. Then take lots of photographs of all incursions, damage, etc. Have a look to see if you have any photographs taken in the past, just randomly, which may show the condition of the boundary at a previous time.

    And finally, you have to get a solicitor involved. And not just any old lawyer, some of them are frankly useless and I wouldn't pay them in chocolate buttons. You need a lawyer who is very conversant with land law. Have a word with the local NFU Group Secretary, even if you aren't a member. They can tell you who is worth engaging. Do you know any land agents who specialise in agricultural matters ? Ask them, they can advise you who to engage.

    And yes, we are being besieged by "Townies" who are moving into the countryside. A lot of the "family farms" have gone now. It was a case of either get big or get out. And the problem with that is that any landlords have sold off all the barns for houses once they obtain possession of the farm.

    But if you do nothing else, do what a clever man once told me nearly 60 years ago. "Buy brains m' lad" Some of the best advice I have ever been given. That same man also told me "to be in charge of my own destiny" and again, a very sound piece of advice, but that's another story.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by zaza; 20-07-21 at 08:26 AM.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    The first thing to do is to look at your Title Deeds. They may show who owns the boundary, they may not. Then take lots of photographs of all incursions, damage, etc. Have a look to see if you have any photographs taken in the past, just randomly, which may show the condition of the boundary at a previous time.

    And finally, you have to get a solicitor involved. And not just any old lawyer, some of them are frankly useless and I wouldn't pay them in chocolate buttons. You need a lawyer who is very conversant with land law. Have a word with the local NFU Group Secretary, even if you aren't a member. They can tell you who is worth engaging. Do you know any land agents who specialise in agricultural matters ? Ask them, they can advise you who to engage.

    And yes, we are being besieged by "Townies" who are moving into the countryside. A lot of the "family farms" have gone now. It was a case of either get big or get out. And the problem with that is that any landlords have sold off all the barns for houses once they obtain possession of the farm.

    But if you do nothing else, do what a clever man once told me nearly 60 years ago. "Buy brains m' lad" Some of the best advice I have ever been given. That same man also told me "to be in charge of my own destiny" and again, a very sound piece of advice, but that's another story.

    Good luck.
    you might also want to take a look at the "Title Deeds" of your neighbour to ensure the line is described the same in both documents - if someone transposed a number or 3 in describing the line that may be the source of your issues.

    On this side of the pond, the jurisdiction has these available on-line available for downloading and they also have geospatial maps which show property lines, including satellite maps which also show major vegetation(i.e. hedges, buildings, tractor trails within forests, . . . I have never looked, but it might show a fence)

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Over here, certainly in England, this is the Government web site to get copies of Deeds and Title Plan. Costs are 3 each if available and you can search on property name and/or post code but you have to register and then log in if you want to make a purchase. https://www.gov.uk/get-information-a...opies-of-deeds

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Thank you both for the pointers,I'll take a look at the government site, I'm also trying to find an address for the previous owners as he was a solicitor,I'll also ask around for land agents.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Boundaries are always a thorny issue. The Leylandii was probably planted on the old boundary and google earth can be a big help here. It generally has old aerial photos which may hopefully reveal the boundary before the hedge was planted.
    sadly this trick of claiming an extension of the boundary is very common and some people seem to make a regular habit of planting a hedge on the boundary then claiming a stretch beyond that as their property.
    If you placed the fence there and nobody complained at the time then it is your property and cutting it is most definitely a criminal act.
    If they have placed a gate in it then chaining and locking it is the first course of action a letter to them at the same time to explain your actions and you belief in ownership based on the fact that the previous owner did not complain.
    Of course it is quite likely the previous owner told them it was his boundary
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    A house adjoining some rough grazing here piped in the ditch which was the actual boundary then treated a guide wire fence my side as the new boundary.
    It was only a short stretch and their new fence is more stockproof so though I pointed out the naughtiness by formal letter (they ignored), I felt it was on balance no big deal.
    They then planted trees and shrubs right up to it which will block the pipe below eventually - it will go into their house when that happens though
    The new fence also stops their dog which is a further plus point.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Most people do not realise that a ditch is usually the boundary (not always) and not the hedge or a fence that happens to be there. In most instances a ditch was originally dug out to mark a boundary and the spoil was thrown up onto the side of the ditch that belonged to the person who owned that side of the ditch. Then a hedge was planted on the spoil. What most non-country people have difficulty in grasping is that anything on the other side of the nearest edge of a ditch from their property belongs to their neighbour. It is known as a Presumption in Law unless Title Deeds state otherwise.

    https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/know...and-ditch-rule

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    A house adjoining some rough grazing here piped in the ditch which was the actual boundary then treated a guide wire fence my side as the new boundary.
    It was only a short stretch and their new fence is more stockproof so though I pointed out the naughtiness by formal letter (they ignored), I felt it was on balance no big deal.
    They then planted trees and shrubs right up to it which will block the pipe below eventually - it will go into their house when that happens though
    The new fence also stops their dog which is a further plus point.
    if the shrubs are on your property I would remove them otherwise they will gain ownership through adverse possession
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    I went to see the previous owner and had an interesting chat with him,this morning we removed the offending gate and carefully placed it and the screws onto next doors 'lawn',inserted a length of netting to cover the area from the corner to the first post,joined a length of barbed to the original which they had cut and shortened and added another strand to above the net,I could do with some mains electricity to electrify all the fences as they have informed me that they will still come onto my land to collect the kids balls that he's kicked over-why isn't my (dairy) bull a bad lad

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    I went to see the previous owner and had an interesting chat with him,this morning we removed the offending gate and carefully placed it and the screws onto next doors 'lawn',inserted a length of netting to cover the area from the corner to the first post,joined a length of barbed to the original which they had cut and shortened and added another strand to above the net,I could do with some mains electricity to electrify all the fences as they have informed me that they will still come onto my land to collect the kids balls that he's kicked over-why isn't my (dairy) bull a bad lad
    I would get a letter from your solicitor, to inform him that you are taking action as you are concerned that with a gate of any sort, you are concerned that this may be left open and your stock could escape, causing damage to his garden and possibly to neighbours and come too injury or worse on the roads.
    Further it should be pointed out that any damage to your newly repaired stock proof fence by accessing the field behind for retrieving balls or such like, could result in a very large claim for expenses from your insurance company. such claims have run into the millions when car accidents are the result.
    I would though also offer an olive branch stating that if he were to pay the expense of placing a stock proof kissing gate in the fence and an acknowledgement that such gate does not give him any right today, or at any time in the future. Then you would be happy to organise it.
    This places the ball firmly in his court!
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Boundary fence

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    I went to see the previous owner and had an interesting chat with him,this morning we removed the offending gate and carefully placed it and the screws onto next doors 'lawn',inserted a length of netting to cover the area from the corner to the first post,joined a length of barbed to the original which they had cut and shortened and added another strand to above the net,I could do with some mains electricity to electrify all the fences as they have informed me that they will still come onto my land to collect the kids balls that he's kicked over-why isn't my (dairy) bull a bad lad
    it sounds like you are, at least, getting some dialogue. have your solicitor review what the two of you are agreeing to, write it up in legalize to recognize legal responsibility for both parties so you can both sign the agreement

    (then get the necessary insurance)

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